[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

This is correct, Ford has no problem making a car that will beat last year's car, no matter what the folks who just bought last year's car think. They have done this time and time again. You can't blame them though, they have to compete. In order to compete, you have to keep getting better and better.

I have a friend that has been extremely conservative with his money his whole life, and was able to retire early. As a retirement present for himself, he bought a 2010 GT500, and put it in the garage thinking that it will be worth a bunch of money in the future. He could drive it once in a while, but it would be a nice investment. I told him that it wouldn't necessarily be an investment, because Ford will probably build a faster one the next year or two. But, he was/is a big fan of all the car auction TV shows, and thought that these Halo cars end up being worth a ton because of how rare they become. But, a ton of the cars that sell for big money from back in the day benefited from the gas crisis and emission standards that came into play. It made those cars the fastest for years and years to come. The cars that followed were garbage in comparison for quite some time.

We don't have that now. Just a few years later, Ford put out a GT500 with 662 HP, which was more that 100HP more than his garage queen. He has been trying to sell it for more than a year, and he is only asking $35k. No one has taken him up on the offer, but several have offered $30k. It is low miles and completely babied. Now he doesn't know whether to dump the car and take what he can get, or just stop babying it and drive it. I have been trying to convince him to just drive it and have fun.

If he keeps it in pristine condition and waits maybe about another 10 years then it is quite possible he'll get that much or more. People look at older cars and see their value now but they forget that those cars are 20-30 years old. A 2010 GT500 right now even with low miles ain't worth much. But by 2025 when they are rarer and rarer and the ones out there are high mileage or have been modded or been flogged at the track, then his will look much better. Especially since it is a 2010 which is when the new S197 body style started to take shape. So he'll just have to either enjoy it for now and not worry about value, or sell it now for what he can get, or hold it for another 10+ years.

Originally Posted by shaffe

BTW been very fun debating/discussing/ bench racing with you and others today

Yea I'm not such a bad guy after all, lol!! Same here man. I enjoy debating with people like yourself who know their stuff. I would not mind if more Ford fans came around with your type of manners. But when the troll-ish ones start showing up is when I get a bit more, enthusiastic, in my comments, lol!! Let's keep it going in this direction.

[Zodiac]

Damn way too much to catch up on. Do you people not work?! Holy hell. One question for you blaq, I saw one post you carried on about the Mustang guys grasping onto sales because of the inferior car performance wise, etc and that's all they have.

That was the same argument Camaro 5 owners, so how is it different now? It's ok for the Camaro to be a sales leader (and it matters then) but if the Mustang leads it doesn't mean shit? Sorry just trying to grasp that statement.

I'm looking forward to driving one of these GT PP 10 speed autos. Won't be giving up my Charger for one, but still wanna drive it.

Also I don't know who stated that the LS9 was never used in another car by GM, it was, just not in the US unfortunately.

The Holden Commodore ended production with an awesome bang. God I would love to drive an LS9 powered sedan, even better yet a wagon! Unfortunately GM never brought us the wonderful Commodore wagon. If it was here I'd be driving one. I may have an animosity towards GM an their dealer network with all the shit I've been through, but a wagon would have made it all go away.

Carry on folks. Also my post about the Camaro/Corvette was complete sarcasm since some people think the 6th gen Camaro is the second (or first depending what you believe) coming of Jesus. Some people take this shit way to seriously. It's a car and unless you are being paid to drive it why do you care what someone else buys/thinks?

I love this golden age of muscle/pony/sport cars whatever you want to call it.

[Gunkk]

I’d like to drive a 600hp+ mustang or mopar convertible, but....

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by Zodiac

Damn way too much to catch up on. Do you people not work?! Holy hell. One question for you blaq, I saw one post you carried on about the Mustang guys grasping onto sales because of the inferior car performance wise, etc and that's all they have.

That was the same argument Camaro 5 owners, so how is it different now? It's ok for the Camaro to be a sales leader (and it matters then) but if the Mustang leads it doesn't mean shit? Sorry just trying to grasp that statement.

I'm looking forward to driving one of these GT PP 10 speed autos. Won't be giving up my Charger for one, but still wanna drive it.

Also I don't know who stated that the LS9 was never used in another car by GM, it was, just not in the US unfortunately.

The Holden Commodore ended production with an awesome bang. God I would love to drive an LS9 powered sedan, even better yet a wagon! Unfortunately GM never brought us the wonderful Commodore wagon. If it was here I'd be driving one. I may have an animosity towards GM an their dealer network with all the shit I've been through, but a wagon would have made it all go away.

Carry on folks. Also my post about the Camaro/Corvette was complete sarcasm since some people think the 6th gen Camaro is the second (or first depending what you believe) coming of Jesus. Some people take this shit way to seriously. It's a car and unless you are being paid to drive it why do you care what someone else buys/thinks?

I love this golden age of muscle/pony/sport cars whatever you want to call it.

Honestly, even if you're being paid to drive one over the others, I'd say the question still stands.

Is it fun to compare them? Yeah. But not worth getting all riled up about.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

If he keeps it in pristine condition and waits maybe about another 10 years then it is quite possible he'll get that much or more. People look at older cars and see their value now but they forget that those cars are 20-30 years old. A 2010 GT500 right now even with low miles ain't worth much. But by 2025 when they are rarer and rarer and the ones out there are high mileage or have been modded or been flogged at the track, then his will look much better. Especially since it is a 2010 which is when the new S197 body style started to take shape. So he'll just have to either enjoy it for now and not worry about value, or sell it now for what he can get, or hold it for another 10+ years.

I don't know. 10 years from now, if I was looking for a GT500 from this era, why wouldn't want the 662 a whole lot more than the 540 HP version. Okay, perhaps the 2007 500 HP version, because it was the first year of the return, but that's a big difference in HP. Too big to shrug off and say "close enough".

But a lot of this depends on what cars are available at the time too. If I can buy a GT500 in 10 years with 1,000 HP brand new at a relatively reasonable price, I'm not going to pay much for a 2010 version. If we are all forced to ride in solar powered self driving pods, I would pay $1,000,000 and so would you.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Zodiac

Damn way too much to catch up on. Do you people not work?! Holy hell. One question for you blaq, I saw one post you carried on about the Mustang guys grasping onto sales because of the inferior car performance wise, etc and that's all they have.

That was the same argument Camaro 5 owners, so how is it different now? It's ok for the Camaro to be a sales leader (and it matters then) but if the Mustang leads it doesn't mean shit? Sorry just trying to grasp that statement.

When did anyone on Camaro5 use sales as an argument? Historically speaking, the Mustang has outsold the Camaro more often than not. If I remember, out of the past 50 years the Camaro has outsold the Mustang less than 10 times (yearly sales). So when and how would anyone even use the argument that the Camaro sells better? I've been here over 5 years and never once saw that argument.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

I don't know. 10 years from now, if I was looking for a GT500 from this era, why wouldn't want the 662 a whole lot more than the 540 HP version. Okay, perhaps the 2007 500 HP version, because it was the first year of the return, but that's a big difference in HP. Too big to shrug off and say "close enough".

But a lot of this depends on what cars are available at the time too. If I can buy a GT500 in 10 years with 1,000 HP brand new at a relatively reasonable price, I'm not going to pay much for a 2010 version. If we are all forced to ride in solar powered self driving pods, I would pay $1,000,000 and so would you.

Well look at it this way, if someone was looking for a 95 Z28 for whatever reason, why not buy a 98 Z28 instead? It had more power, OBD2, and a bunch of other stuff. But someone who specifically wants a 95 will buy a 95. I would love another 87 IROC. Sure they got faster after 87 but I want an 87. And I'd love an 86 Corvette too. So in 10, 20 years from now people will be looking to buy these cars. And if someone wants a 2010 they're gonna get a 2010. It's not like they're looking to race them if they're looking for one in pristine condition with low mileage anyway.

[ChefBorOzzy]

There's a guy on YouTube who ran 12.4 @119.. DA was something like -1400.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

When did anyone on Camaro5 use sales as an argument? Historically speaking, the Mustang has outsold the Camaro more often than not. If I remember, out of the past 50 years the Camaro has outsold the Mustang less than 10 times (yearly sales). So when and how would anyone even use the argument that the Camaro sells better? I've been here over 5 years and never once saw that argument.

Looking back at the late '10 and early '11 sales you can see more than even these few samples:

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

LOL Mustang simply CANT compare to the Camaro looks wise especially. It's not hard to figure out why the Camaro keeps outselling it and will continue to keep outselling it.

Expect the usual Mustang people to make another excuse lol.

Thumbs up to Chevrolet & GM once again on another GREAT month in sales for the Camaro!

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

CONGRATULATIONS TO THE CAMARO TEAM !!!!!! AND CONGRATULATIONS TO CHEVROLET FOR SELLING A RECORD NUMBER OF CAMAROS FOR MY BIRTHDAY MONTH OF APRIL!!!!! THE MOMENTUM WILL CONTINUE & MUSTANG WILL CONTINUE TO BE OUTSOLD!:chev y:

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

Camaro is kicking the Mustang's ass in sales and some people just can't stand it. Eat it B*tches.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

WOOOO!!!!!

Summer's a 'comin.....let the convertible's free, and watch the sales rise higher!!!!

Also, I noticed some familiar comments:

Originally Posted by b4z

I'm seeing a lot of 5.0s on the dealer's lots. Thinking that Ford may have gone to high with their price point. Mustang buyers have typically bought because they are less expensive.

Originally Posted by b4z

I am just wondering if Ford has killed the goose that laid the golden egg by moving the Mustang upmarket and having GT's that can be optioned up to 39K?
Mustangs were always a less expensive option to the Camaro.

What is interesting is how the Challenger sales are moving up. Man that car is huge and drives like patio furniture. The 2011s are supposedly a big step up, but that is one large vehicle.

The Camaro is so much better looking than the Mustang as to be ridiculous, i think it's poor visibility is losing it sales.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

Looking back at the late '10 and early '11 sales you can see more than even these few samples:









Also, I noticed some familiar comments:

You missed the point. The Camaro outsold the Mustang in 2010 and the Camaro was faster that year. In 11 the Camaro outsold the Mustang but the Mustang was slightly faster. So when did anyone use sales as a defensive argument for the Camaro? That is what Zodiac said which I replied to. The posts you dug up are just people exclaiming the higher sales numbers. Nowhere did anyone use it as a defending argument. And BTW I said I have been here for over 5 years. I joined in 2012. I have not seen that argument here in the time I have been here.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

There's a guy on YouTube who ran 12.4 @119.. DA was something like -1400.

Obviously terrible 60' times, but look at that mph 119+, this car is making the power as advertised.

[BlaqWhole]

Again, welcome to where everyone else has been for the past few model years, lol!! It's good they're finally there but it isn't anything special.

[BlaqWhole]

I think the magazines are gonna manage a mid-ish 12. I wanna see how it handles the figure 8 and a road course compared to the SS and the SS 1LE. And I'd like to see how well it brakes. I guess we'll see pretty soon. Probably some time in December.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Yea I'm not such a bad guy after all, lol!! Same here man. I enjoy debating with people like yourself who know their stuff. I would not mind if more Ford fans came around with your type of manners. But when the troll-ish ones start showing up is when I get a bit more, enthusiastic, in my comments, lol!! Let's keep it going in this direction.

Thanks lol. I would say I do lean more Ford side in vehicles, but I just love cars, that's why I am on this forum. I actually did grow up in a GM household, but after our family had a bad string with GM we went over to Ford and built a hell of relationship with the local dealer. I am glad it happened bc if it didn't I would probably be a blind fan boy lol.

From the video that ChefBorOzzy posted it sure looks like the car is making some power with the trap speed.