ZL1 Weight?

[SonnyakaPig]

Originally Posted by Z_Rocks

Hey Sonny, how you doing man? Hope you're well!
What do you mean by "When I owned my SS"? Did you sell your Camaro?

To answer your question, I really don't know and I'm not qualified to propose what the weight should be. All I know, today I took a ride and drove a friend's new CTS-V with two adults in the car (me and him) and you can feel the car was not peppy. I used to own a Z06 that was first N/A and then S/C it was light on it's feet. Another friend before buying his Aston Martin, looked at the ZR1 and each one got a ride by the dealer and it was [very] quick. He just hated the interior.
This is the same problem that the SRT8 has, too heavy.

I've never driven in the CTS-V. I know it's fast, but I can see how its weight (over 4,000 lbs) would make itself known.

[SonnyakaPig]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Adding a supercharger and intercooler, then beefing up the suspension and drivetrain is going to add a fair bit of weight, probably 200 lbs in total. To get the car down to 3700 or so, they'd need to take out ~350 lbs elsewhere ... absolutely positively unequivocally not gunna happen. Look at the Corvette. In going from the base coupe to the Z06 they managed to net only 33 lbs in savings. That includes going from a steel frame to aluminum, splashing some carbon fibre around, even going with balsa wood in the floor. Those measures saved something like 150 lbs but most of that got added right back on when other things were upgraded. Unless its gutted, removing any and all creature comforts there is simply no chance for pulling that much weight out of it. About the best that we can hope for is that the ZL1 stays under 4000 lbs.

I hear you. And I hope I didn't give the impression that C63 owners want to gut their cars for DD. More so for track events.

But, there are some ways to shed some good weight on the ZL1. For instance, I dropped 40 lbs all around by changing to different rotors. You can drop another 30-45 lbs with a lighter weight battery. On my car, going from a stock hood to vented C/F hood could save 32 lbs. I'm not sure how much the ZL1's catback will weigh, and I'm not suggesting changing it because from the clips I've heard it sounded great, but I imagine their will be some aftermarket option that could save weight.

With my SS, I installed a Corsa exhaust and I think that shed a few lbs. It helped compensate a little for the added weight from the blower.

If people have the money and the desire (I only have one of these and it's the easier of the two to attain ) you can install beautiful C/F front seats. All of a sudden you're down in lbs.

I think it's great that the ZL1 will be built very stout. And I can only imagine that the car will handle great. Just think, if the car does come out with a curb weight of 4000 lbs, owners can still see if the aftermarket can accomidate their desire to drop weight.

Even dropping 100 lbs would be a plus. And I'm sure that and more is within reach.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Blackdevil77

That pic is amazing. Doesn't look very safe, but amazing none the less. What about fiber glass panals? Are those pricey and would they work?

The material cost for the fibreglass itself would be a good deal less than for carbon fibre, but the cost of re-engineering structural elements would essentially be the same. In either case, they'd be replacing steel with a fibre reinforced plastic which behaves very differently than metals would.

Originally Posted by radz28

Those panels aren't really fiberglass, if I recall correctly. I believe they're SMC - sheet molded composite. They are very similar to fiberglass but have a more plastic (composite) matrix, if you will.

The composite in SMC is fibreglass, so calling it fibreglass is still accurate (though perhaps not as precise)

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by SonnyakaPig

I hear you. And I hope I didn't give the impression that C63 owners want to gut their cars for DD. More so for track events.

But, there are some ways to shed some good weight on the ZL1. For instance, I dropped 40 lbs all around by changing to different rotors. You can drop another 30-45 lbs with a lighter weight battery. On my car, going from a stock hood to vented C/F hood could save 32 lbs. I'm not sure how much the ZL1's catback will weigh, and I'm not suggesting changing it because from the clips I've heard it sounded great, but I imagine their will be some aftermarket option that could save weight.

With my SS, I installed a Corsa exhaust and I think that shed a few lbs. It helped compensate a little for the added weight from the blower.

If people have the money and the desire (I only have one of these and it's the easier of the two to attain ) you can install beautiful C/F front seats. All of a sudden you're down in lbs.

I think it's great that the ZL1 will be built very stout. And I can only imagine that the car will handle great. Just think, if the car does come out with a curb weight of 4000 lbs, owners can still see if the aftermarket can accomidate their desire to drop weight.

Even dropping 100 lbs would be a plus. And I'm sure that and more is within reach.

The key as you point out is the aftermarket. You can choose to do things that GM simply can't. Can't either do to regulations or simply cost. For example, the brakes on the ZR1 are significantly lighter..............they just cost $10,000. And a CF hood, at least one that meets GM specs will run you $1,500 to $2,000. That is a lot for 32 pounds.

GM used light weight batteries (glass matt if I recall correctly) on the C5 Z06 with quite poor results for durability and cold starting. But it did weigh less. And to me, that is one of the things that makes this so interesting is each owner can then taylor the modifications to their taste and budget.

And not to say 100 pounds isn't a lot, but I have yet to see a thread started with "Has anyone else notice how much more performance you get in your Camaro when you only have 1/4 tanks of gas????"

And we have had several threads on the SS and the OP was going to "put their car on a diet". But I don't recall any of those amounting to anything.

For your average driver, not going to a track, you need more than 100 pounds to make it noticeable.

But I look forward to a thread where someone does actually take their rear seat out. LOL only because you are now trying to turn your Camaro into a Corvette if you do that. I just find that one funny.

How much are carbon fiber seats, btw?

[Z4me]

Haha #3 you crack me up with that last thread about
some ways to save weight on the camaro. Actually my
suggestion of removing the rear seats was inspired by
Fords move to do this with thier new Boss mustang. But
perhaps as another forum person wrote this might be
more appropriate with the debut of the Z28 possible
in the newer and smaller alpha plateform for the 6th gens.

I personally believe the majority of the future buyers of
the ZL1 will still buy the car even if it reaches 4,000 lbs.
But for me it's kinda fun to speculate ways that GM might
develop ways to make this vehicle lighter before final
production begins. I was also thinking a smaller and
lighter gas tank, and when I read your post concerning
a partially filled gas tank before going to the track I did
LOL. For the buyers of the ZL1 with the thoughts of
taking it to the track I believe there will be ways to shed
possible 100 to 200lbs. But maintaining the same
structurally integrity for safety reasons maybe difficult
to obtain. On the plus side good thing my wires been
having me work out and keeping me slim that might
of saved me 20 to 30 lbs.

[Z4me]

Grrr last sentence had a typo and wrote wires and meant
to write wife. Combination of just waking up and trying
to get use to my I phone can be a challenge at times.
Plus when I tried to edit that on my original post I was
unable to scroll down far enough to fix it. I'm sure thier
are ways to do this, but I couldn't figure it out.

[Number 3]

Also interesting to see if this is a conflict with what the Pony car is......a 4 seat coupe.

If you are going to race your car, yeah take out the rear seat. But for day in day out driving I'm not sure why you would do that. Besides, the rear seats don't weight that much and the noise levels from opening up the back end of the car to the trunk would be noticeable. Just fold your seat and drive around and see how much more noise you get from the trunk.

Guessing, but I don't think you would save more than 30 pounds, maybe 40 if you took out the seat belts and you would be taking it off the wrong end of the car. You want to remove it from the front, not the back. If nothing else, weight distribution over the back wheels maintains traction.

I just think that removing the things that make it a great daily driver are not valuable.

But sure you could gut the car of airbags, radio, HVAC and passenger seat even and save a few hundred pounds. But this all seems to stem from the fact that the Mustang is lighter (from being much smaller). So when you beat that Mustang and he or she is driving home from the track (of course you wouldn't go on the street) listening to some great tunes and keeping cool with the A/C on, at least you would feel better for having won. Well not YOU, but the figurative you meaning everyone that wants to lighten their car.

Here is a simple rule. Everything and anything you can do to lighten your car will make it less durable, more expensive or both and you will probably be trading off something that GM couldn't or wouldn't (i.e. make the Camaro a 2 seater).

Mass reduction is a huge element of every car and truck program. Mass hurts fuel economy and everyone is after fuel economy in every segment including the Camaro. So if it was affordable and durable, GM either already did it or at least considered it.

[Number 3]

And by the way, Chevrolet already offers a 2 seater that costs $48,950.

[Z_Rocks]

Originally Posted by SonnyakaPig

I've never driven in the CTS-V. I know it's fast, but I can see how its weight (over 4,000 lbs) would make itself known.

My friend who just bought the CTS-V had a BMW 5 series and he says, the CTS feels much better than the 5.
I drove it. It's VERY solid and firm and balanced. Honestly, it almost feels like you're driving high end MB car. Even though it heavy, but doesn't feel like a boat. It's just not a "Rocket" feeling, which should be expected for that size. His is a four door.

[SonnyakaPig]

Originally Posted by Number 3

The key as you point out is the aftermarket. You can choose to do things that GM simply can't. Can't either do to regulations or simply cost. For example, the brakes on the ZR1 are significantly lighter..............they just cost $10,000. And a CF hood, at least one that meets GM specs will run you $1,500 to $2,000. That is a lot for 32 pounds.

GM used light weight batteries (glass matt if I recall correctly) on the C5 Z06 with quite poor results for durability and cold starting. But it did weigh less. And to me, that is one of the things that makes this so interesting is each owner can then taylor the modifications to their taste and budget.

And not to say 100 pounds isn't a lot, but I have yet to see a thread started with "Has anyone else notice how much more performance you get in your Camaro when you only have 1/4 tanks of gas????"

And we have had several threads on the SS and the OP was going to "put their car on a diet". But I don't recall any of those amounting to anything.

For your average driver, not going to a track, you need more than 100 pounds to make it noticeable.

But I look forward to a thread where someone does actually take their rear seat out. LOL only because you are now trying to turn your Camaro into a Corvette if you do that. I just find that one funny.

How much are carbon fiber seats, btw?

You made the key distinction--there is a difference between GM making the ZL1 much lighter and the aftermarket providing that means.

I certainly understand how much more expensive the ZL1 would become if it was designed with C/F parts and high-end lightweight rotors. That isn't feasible for a lot of the prospective market.

But, there will be a ZL1 aftermarket. There always is for cars like the ZL1.

Regarding your point about you not seeing whether 100-200 lbs can really make a difference. I'll tell you this, in the Camaro world, dropping weight isn't the most important intent because you have awesome turbo and blower setups. Plus great N/A builds.

But, in other car sectors where there is not nearly the same amount of aftermarket power adders, you have to look to weight reduction. And I don't want to take this thread off track, but I can tell you that 100 lbs drop can drop your time a tenth of a second in the 1/4. What that means to an individual is up to them.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Number 3

And by the way, Chevrolet already offers a 2 seater that costs $48,950.

Wondering what you think of this Number 3....Do you think it's realistic? Did I forget anything?


This is a post I made elsewhere on the forums, but thought it belonged here, too. I was pretty proud of doing all this math (finally, I sat down and did it on paper, instead of hear and there in my head...)

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Well....here's my math. And I admit, portions of it are fuzzy because we don't have access to all the engineering data, like mass....but then isn't that part of the fun?

Starting with an SS at 3860 lb.

Loose 22 lbs for the wheels, approx 20 lbs from the exhaust, 3 lbs from each front brake rotor, 25lbs thanks to EPS, and 2 lbs from the CF hood insert, brings the car down to 3785. (The wider tires do NOT add any weight. In fact, they take some out...but since I'm being nice...I didn't subtract the ~8 lbs or so they remove from the assembly because that might be part of the lighter wheels the Chevy engineers are quoting. I don't know.) But I digress....3785.

I used the percentage difference between the LSA and LS3 crate engines to calculate the LSA's weight to be approximately 40-50 lbs heavier than the LS3. This includes a liberal addition (on my part) of weight to account for the added coolant and plumbing involved with the supercharger. Oh, and 24 lbs for the beefier transmission...3859.

I figure on about 3 lbs of added weight on each corner for the MSR, 5 lbs per front corner for 6-pot brembos vs 4, and 10 lbs for added composite body aero pieces...3891.

Then...the undercarriage is the biggest "guesstimate". I believe, between the differential, the driveshaft, extra coolers, the twin-disc clutch, axles, and other bolts and pieces...maybe 85 lbs? The bigger, cast-iron diff, and coolers will contribute to most of that...but the rest will be minimal....3976.

Because I'm far from perfect...and because I trust Chevy will manage to surprise us with more magic somewhere, I'll convert that into a range and say I predict the ZL1 will weigh anywhere from 3936 - 4016.

Multiple sources have quoted saying that the "Z28", what we now know to be the ZL1, would weigh approximately 200-300 lbs lighter than the 4222lb CTS-V. This falls in line with my math, and roughly in line with the difference between the CTS coupe and Camaro LT models...

[Z_Rocks]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Wondering what you think of this Number 3....Do you think it's realistic? Did I forget anything?


This is a post I made elsewhere on the forums, but thought it belonged here, too. I was pretty proud of doing all this math (finally, I sat down and did it on paper, instead of hear and there in my head...)

I've basically come up to the same numbers in my head. ~4000.

[Blackdevil77]

Originally Posted by Z_Rocks

I've basically come up to the same numbers in my head. ~4000.

I'd be thrilled if they got it to weigh as much as the SS. Hopefully they have a couple more weight saving changes up their sleeves they didn't announce at the Chicago auto show.


Just curious, how much weight difference would you say titanium exhaust has over stainless steel? Whats the drawback to titanium, if any?

[Black5thgen]

The GM engineers know what a big deal the weight of the 5th gen is. I would be surprised if the ZL1 weighed over 4000 lbs. but I expect it to be just at that.