[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I want great. I want industry changing. I want Dearborn confused and I want Italy afraid. I........want..........MORE

Yes!

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Isn't the 2014+ selling very well? I think the 2014+ is much more aggressive looking.

Versus the Mustang and Challenger, yes. Collectively? I don't think anyone knows how profitable the vehicle actually is. Hopefully it is cutting a profit so it stays around for a very long time.

In terms of Camaro enthusiasts, the redesign was much maligned. Around Camaro5, I think the 2014-2015 models would lose in terms of design. Handily. What's helping them sell is they are optioned much better than the earlier models and a lot of the kinks in the 2010-2011 model years have been worked out. I don't understand the plastic bumpers and design cues from a Volt, and I hope they don't continue softening the Camaro in the 6th gen. I'm looking for aggression and for GM to return the Camaro to its roots in terms of straight line performance. Handling is nice and all, but IMO raw speed should be more prioritized in the redesign. The 4th gens spank these cars on the strip, and I don't think that's acceptable.

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

Versus the Mustang and Challenger, yes. Collectively? I don't think anyone knows how profitable the vehicle actually is. Hopefully it is cutting a profit so it stays around for a very long time.

In terms of Camaro enthusiasts, the redesign was much maligned. Around Camaro5, I think the 2014-2015 models would lose in terms of design. Handily. What's helping them sell is they are optioned much better than the earlier models and a lot of the kinks in the 2010-2011 model years have been worked out. I don't understand the plastic bumpers and design cues from a Volt, and I hope they don't continue softening the Camaro in the 6th gen. I'm looking for aggression and for GM to return the Camaro to its roots in terms of straight line performance. Handling is nice and all, but IMO raw speed should be more prioritized in the redesign. The 4th gens spank these cars on the strip, and I don't think that's acceptable.

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

The reason why the Camaro sells so well is because of its heritage as a muscle car. The 2014-2015 redesign crossed a Camaro with a Volt. Further cutting the "muscle" out of the car will do damage. Camaro sales for years and years were abysmal versus a Mustang. That's why they chopped the Camaro brand. The 5th gen was so popular because it actually looks like a muscle car.

No one is buying a Camaro for fuel efficiency. They want it because it is an iconic symbol with a rich heritage, it's affordable and is aggressive. Removing more aggression will hurt sales. People don't want a soft, fuel efficient Camaro. There are plenty of vehicles to choose from if you want a "sporty" sedan. This is the first time in ages...maybe ever...the Camaro is consistently outpacing the Mustang, and it's because it is the more aggressive car. The Mustang looks like a plastic toy next to a Camaro.

Originally Posted by *007

That would be great! But, LEAD the power war! At least give the option available for those who want it. That's all I say. BANG.

Originally Posted by *007

Sounds like "eat your peas"... Muscle sells. Always has, always will. Some car companies profess to meet this need. Head on. In your face. Sure CAFE is coming. But let's not go out without a fight! That would just be plain "weak"... like reliving the 80's... History repeats. Balls to the walls while you can. Planning for CAFE doesn't require forfeiting MUSCLE. Unless you want to wear pantyhose. It's a choice I guess.

From Dodge's website. http://www.dodge.com/en/challenger/YOU EITHER TAKE POWER OR YOU FEAR IT.

Agree!

[WATCHER]

AC did not make a "muscle" car. The 260 v8 was the muscle. It did not LOOK like a "muscle car", the Chrysler 300 did. The Chevy 409 did. If you want a fat car because you are fat, buy a Mopar or a "SS" Holden Chevy.
POWER TO WEIGHT RATIO makes a GREAT sporting car, whether it be sports car or Grand Touring machine.
AC Cobra, Lotus, etc...POWER TO WEIGHT.
Original Mustang, LATER the Camaro...POWER TO WEIGHT.
If you look at engineering AND tradition, the answer is SMALLER.
The only reason the BIGGER cars were easy to make "muscle cars" is that HUGE motors fit...
and the space between the metal fenders was mostly AIR. Air is light...comparatively.
Modern cars have so many legislated and propagandized(sp?) requirements, that the air space now has STUFF filling it up. The bigger the car, the more STUFF people and the government think we need. Have you seen how the companies BRAG about how MANY airbags are in each car?

Smaller is better. If you are too large, buy Mopar. The young generation of "drifters" WANT AMERICAN COMPETITION...and that is where the money will be...VERY SOON. Not us old fat guys and girls.

A few years ago, I cruised by a parking lot with half a dozen import tuner cars parked. Everyone admiring each others cars. I SLOWLY cruised by in my 2006 Mustang GT...figuring I'd piss them off. I revved my motor as I passed the central gaggle of "ricers"...
I was genuinely shocked...

They YELLED almost in UNISON...

"AMERICAN MUSCLE, YAY!" !!!

I was stunned and humbled. They were not the people I thought they were.

DON'T underestimate the younger crowd that Chevy/GM is going to be targeting.
THEY KNOW POWER TO WEIGHT.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

The reason why the Camaro sells so well is because of its heritage as a muscle car. The 2014-2015 redesign crossed a Camaro with a Volt. Further cutting the "muscle" out of the car will do damage. Camaro sales for years and years were abysmal versus a Mustang. That's why they chopped the Camaro brand. The 5th gen was so popular because it actually looks like a muscle car.

No one is buying a Camaro for fuel efficiency. They want it because it is an iconic symbol with a rich heritage, it's affordable and is aggressive. Removing more aggression will hurt sales. People don't want a soft, fuel efficient Camaro. There are plenty of vehicles to choose from if you want a "sporty" sedan. This is the first time in ages...maybe ever...the Camaro is consistently outpacing the Mustang, and it's because it is the more aggressive car. The Mustang looks like a plastic toy next to a Camaro.

I am almost positive I'm not asking for a sft fuelneffiiebt Cmaro. Somebody is jumping to a wild conclusion.

Here is what I believe we are getting.

An LT1 ith an 8 speed auto or 7 speed manual for n SS. That I neithervoftbor fuel efficient. I'm pretty sure that will even satisfy them"muscle" crowd.

I think that SS will come in about 200 or so pounds less than the current SS.

I think that makes for a 35 HP increase and a 200 pound decrease which should make most people pretty $&@/:&ing happy.

That, however, only makes a better Camaro. It doesn't make a great car.

What will define the Gen6 as a truly great car will be the Merritt's of the non LT1 variants.

You guys are arguing against me when the very basics that I wn satisfy the "muscle" guys. I just want wayyyyy more than you because I know what they cn do if they choose to and have the courage to.

If they just put anLT1 under the hood of that smaller lighter car most of you will be happy......livery happy. I just have te luxury of mowing what these guys are capable of and I just want that. GMs best effort.

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I am tired of it. Now I want greatness. The Gen5 was resurrection. The Gen6 can be the future if GM has the courage to do so.

Yes it should be a Camaro.........we just have to be prepared to change with the times on what that means.

I fear that GM won't have the courage to be great and will shackle themselves to the past out of fear and we will have 2003 alllllll over again.

Originally Posted by Number 3

Muscle doesn't cut it.

The GenIV died not because of lack of muscle........it died because the foundation car as a V6 SUCKED!!!!!

I could take a cracker box and put 708 HP in it and the "muscle" fans would buy it simply because it was 1 more than the Fiat.

The Camaro, in order to survive, has to go beyond "muscle" and simply be a great automobile.

I worked there. We accomplished great things on my teams that would be a huge list most of which GM gets no or little credit for.

I know the people there and I know what they are capable of.

Taking a an ATS coupe and making a 7/8 scale Gen5 Camaro with more HP could be done by the Chinese. What I want is the best work that the people I know are capable of making.

I want great. I want industry changing. I want Dearborn confused and I want Italy afraid. I........want..........MORE

The 5th gen Camaro definitely changed the game with 400 + HP and 300+ HP V6's ! Ofcourse you want industry changing , we all do! Who justifies what is industry changing? I call the Camaro winning every award known to man , winning all almost all magazine reviews, being the top seller in its class, and selling 10,000 plus in its 5th year industry changing! This means nobody think that it's boring besides you! Selling 10,000 in a 9 year old car as some likes to point out is industry changing itself!

This is greatness! You want one car to do everything , Not happening ! The cars that you can fly and go under water in is coming but not now ! GM can't make everyone happy. and you're are one of the ones! But Are you going to buy 10,000or even 1,000 Camaro's?

[doc7000]

Originally Posted by WATCHER

AC did not make a "muscle" car. The 260 v8 was the muscle. It did not LOOK like a "muscle car", the Chrysler 300 did. The Chevy 409 did. If you want a fat car because you are fat, buy a Mopar or a "SS" Holden Chevy.
POWER TO WEIGHT RATIO makes a GREAT sporting car, whether it be sports car or Grand Touring machine.
AC Cobra, Lotus, etc...POWER TO WEIGHT.
Original Mustang, LATER the Camaro...POWER TO WEIGHT.
If you look at engineering AND tradition, the answer is SMALLER.
The only reason the BIGGER cars were easy to make "muscle cars" is that HUGE motors fit...
and the space between the metal fenders was mostly AIR. Air is light...comparatively.
Modern cars have so many legislated and propagandized(sp?) requirements, that the air space now has STUFF filling it up. The bigger the car, the more STUFF people and the government think we need. Have you seen how the companies BRAG about how MANY airbags are in each car?

Smaller is better. If you are too large, buy Mopar. The young generation of "drifters" WANT AMERICAN COMPETITION...and that is where the money will be...VERY SOON. Not us old fat guys and girls.

A few years ago, I cruised by a parking lot with half a dozen import tuner cars parked. Everyone admiring each others cars. I SLOWLY cruised by in my 2006 Mustang GT...figuring I'd piss them off. I revved my motor as I passed the central gaggle of "ricers"...
I was genuinely shocked...

They YELLED almost in UNISON...

"AMERICAN MUSCLE, YAY!" !!!

I was stunned and humbled. They were not the people I thought they were.

DON'T underestimate the younger crowd that Chevy/GM is going to be targeting.
THEY KNOW POWER TO WEIGHT.

I feel that the Mustang and Camaro in the 1970s and 1980s survived largely off of people who remembered the cars from the 1960s.

The 1980s really saw Japanese auto makers make inroads with its performance cars. A lot of the "ricer" crowds were those who remember 5.7L 200BHP engines in "muscle cars" and Japanese performance cars with less weight and could turn and stop well.

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by WATCHER

AC did not make a "muscle" car. The 260 v8 was the muscle. It did not LOOK like a "muscle car", the Chrysler 300 did. The Chevy 409 did. If you want a fat car because you are fat, buy a Mopar or a "SS" Holden Chevy.
POWER TO WEIGHT RATIO makes a GREAT sporting car, whether it be sports car or Grand Touring machine.
AC Cobra, Lotus, etc...POWER TO WEIGHT.
Original Mustang, LATER the Camaro...POWER TO WEIGHT.
If you look at engineering AND tradition, the answer is SMALLER.
The only reason the BIGGER cars were easy to make "muscle cars" is that HUGE motors fit...
and the space between the metal fenders was mostly AIR. Air is light...comparatively.
Modern cars have so many legislated and propagandized(sp?) requirements, that the air space now has STUFF filling it up. The bigger the car, the more STUFF people and the government think we need. Have you seen how the companies BRAG about how MANY airbags are in each car?

Smaller is better. If you are too large, buy Mopar. The young generation of "drifters" WANT AMERICAN COMPETITION...and that is where the money will be...VERY SOON. Not us old fat guys and girls.

A few years ago, I cruised by a parking lot with half a dozen import tuner cars parked. Everyone admiring each others cars. I SLOWLY cruised by in my 2006 Mustang GT...figuring I'd piss them off. I revved my motor as I passed the central gaggle of "ricers"...
I was genuinely shocked...

They YELLED almost in UNISON...

"AMERICAN MUSCLE, YAY!" !!!

I was stunned and humbled. They were not the people I thought they were.

DON'T underestimate the younger crowd that Chevy/GM is going to be targeting.
THEY KNOW POWER TO WEIGHT.

LOL... You want to impress ricers? I get ricers all the time that like the muscle cars but ofcourse the imports is way cheaper and easier to work on! Nomatter what muscle cars sell for more money and muscle car ppl spend wayyyyyyyyyy more money than ricers! I definitely don't want GM to go by what the ricers like because the way their exhaust sound is horrible! GM is in it for the money and Muscle car enthusiasts spends for what they want.Just compare sells and watch the Car auctions!

[wakespeak]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

#2.99 says it is a cobbled up mule to throw everyone off from the spectacular grounding breaking all new real 6th Gen that will have jaws dropping.

I happen to agree with #3 and #2.99 and am hoping for SPECTACULAR!

+1 looks like a cobbled up mule. If the roofline is for real those A pillars look thick but thankfully off to the side so forward visibility should be ok. The front end looks like a compromise with the '14 and earlier models, a good thing.

[102SS]

Originally Posted by el ess A

I guess you've never owned an 82 or you would rethink that.

I don't care HOW big it is. The point is...if it fits in your garage, then this is the Camaro for you!

The HO cars(L69) had 205hp with a 5 speed in 83 which was something back then.

By 1981 the 2nd Gen had gotten so bloated and fat it couldn't get out of its own way.

I owned a 80 Z28 and an 84 TA and the 84 TA was better than the 2nd from every perspective.

[ExtremeSS]

It looks like they finally realized that a larger trunk is absolutely necessary, the Gen5 trunk was almost useless for someone who travels, glad to see that change. Like others I'm not sure I am going to like the tail lights. Hood appears to be the louvered ZL1, that's also a great addition. If those are the stock wheels they are the worst yet. Can't wait to see it in person!!

[ExtremeSS]

Having a muscle car doesn't always constitute a gas guzzler, my 6.2L 6 speed gets 24 miles to the gallon, which is really great for a 6.2L engine. As a matter of fact most 6 cylinder engines in a car of similar weight do not get better gas mileage on the highway.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by ExtremeSS

Having a muscle car doesn't always constitute a gas guzzler, my 6.2L 6 speed gets 24 miles to the gallon, which is really great for a 6.2L engine. As a matter of fact most 6 cylinder engines in a car of similar weight do not get better gas mileage on the highway.

My 6.2L get 20.5 and is EPA rated at 14/21.

That's why the Camaro got saddled with the L99 instead of the LS3. A manual trans is now confirmed for the 2015 model which should put it back on par with your Camaro.

Keep in mind there is GG Tax and then there is CAFE which is far worse for us enthusiasts.

[v6sonoma]

Originally Posted by Number 3

This won't be a hatchback. GM can't sell hatchbacks which why there is a Cruze hatch available everywhere else BUT North America.

Pretty sure this will not be a hatch but the third gen was and they sold fine. The Corvette is now and people are snatching them up just fine. It's not like we're talking about a Sonic here. Oh and those are selling well too... lol

Originally Posted by Number 3

My 6.2L get 20.5 and is EPA rated at 14/21.

That's why the Camaro got saddled with the L99 instead of the LS3. A manual trans is now confirmed for the 2015 model which should put it back on par with your Camaro.

Keep in mind there is GG Tax and then there is CAFE which is far worse for us enthusiasts.

SS + manual = Love that car and glad it's getting a third pedal.


Overall people are freaking out over nothing. There's so much of this car that hasn't been seen. Like all of it! lol The current car has so many options and variants that between V8's and V6's and possibly turbo 4cyl's and most likely RS and 1LE options and a ton of graphic and color combos you will find a 6th gen to love. With the 5th gen there is still so much love/hate over things that have changed over time. Most of us have been through this before. Sit back. Soak in the spy shots, leaks, and teasers, and wait till the car is unveiled. Then you can freak out... lol