Homepage Garage Wiki Register Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
#Camaro6
Go Back   CAMARO6 > CAMARO6.com General Forums > 2016+ Camaro: 6th Gen Camaro general forum


AWE Tuning


Post Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-12-2013, 03:31 PM   #1
Tran
Administrator
 
Tran's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro of course....
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NE baby
Posts: 5,616
Thumbs up GM CEO orders 15% diet for new models by 2016

This can't be but good news for the weight of the 6th gen Camaro.

Via Autonews

Quote:
When General Motors CEO Dan Akerson vowed last week to cut the weight of new models 15 percent by the 2016 model year, he put his engineers on a rigorous schedule.

Is it doable? Yes, but it's a stretch, says one knowledgeable industry consultant.

"It will be a big effort," said Richard Schultz, managing director of Ducker Worldwide in suburban Detroit, an adviser on mass reduction to GM and other automakers. "That's a lot of work, and GM doesn't have a lot of time."

For instance, GM would have to shed about 600 pounds from a V-6-powered large sedan such as the Buick LaCrosse, which weighs 4,045 pounds.

Engineers could save as much as 200 pounds by substituting a four-cylinder engine for the V-6. The rest would come from lightweight materials.

Schultz said GM will avoid large amounts of carbon fiber reinforced plastic, and it is unlikely to introduce an aluminum-bodied car, as Audi and Jaguar have done.

Instead, GM will use:

• More high-strength steel for the body-in-white.

• Magnesium for selected parts such as transmission cases.

• More aluminum for doors, decklids, hoods and structural parts.

Like other CEOs, Akerson doubtless feels a sense of urgency to meet federal corporate average fuel economy standards, which rise to 35.5 mpg by the 2016 model year.

In his Houston speech last week, Akerson hinted at GM's intention to use more aluminum and high-strength steel.

GM has begun using spot welding to attach aluminum to the body-in-white, saving money and weight by eliminating rivets, which can add as much as two pounds to a car's weight.

The new spot welding system disrupts the oxide on the surface of an aluminum component, ensuring a stronger weld than before. That, in turn, eliminates the need for rivets, GM says.

GM offered a glimpse of the technology's potential with the 2014 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray, company spokesman Dan Flores said.

Spot welding "allows engineers to look for more innovative ways to use aluminum beyond traditional uses" such as hoods, decklids and doors, Flores said.

Translation: Look for GM to use a lot more aluminum in structural components in the body-in-white.

GM also hopes to save money by introducing a high-strength steel that is under development. Last year, GM said it had invested in NanoSteel Co. of Providence, R.I., which has developed a nano-structured steel alloy.

Automakers like high-strength steel because they can make parts thinner, saving weight. But typically, steel alloys must be hot-stamped, which raises manufacturing costs.

NanoSteel is developing a high-strength steel that would be cold-stamped, at less cost.

"If it's cheaper, you can use more of it," Flores said. "It's still in trial, but that's where we think the competitive advantage is."

While GM is investing in aluminum and high-strength steel, one might argue that the company is still hedging its bets.

Take the 2014 Chevrolet Silverado pickup, which goes on sale this spring. GM says it cut 59 pounds by using an aluminum hood, front control arms and steering knuckles. It also used high-strength steel for two-thirds of the cab structure.

But GM could have saved more weight by introducing an aluminum cargo box, cab or bumpers. Mark Reuss, president of GM North America, has noted that fuel-conscious buyers can opt for the Chevrolet Colorado compact pickup.

But Schultz speculates that GM will work harder to cut the weight of its next-generation Silverado. "Why spend the extra money until you have to?" Schultz asks.

What about more exotic materials such as carbon fiber reinforced plastic? The Corvette features a carbon fiber hood, but this material is still too expensive for mass-market vehicles.

To cut cost, GM formed a partnership in 2011 with Teijin Ltd., a Japanese producer of carbon fiber. The company has opened a technical center in suburban Detroit to develop a cheaper way to manufacture carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastic.

Carbon fiber weighs one-fourth as much as conventional steel and is 10 times stronger. But it takes a long time for the resin to set in the mold.

Teijin is trying to reduce the cycle time required to produce carbon fiber parts to less than a minute. But that technology isn't ready, Flores said.

Because carbon fiber is not ready for prime time, that leaves aluminum and high-strength steel as the materials of choice -- especially for a vehicle's front end.

Look for engineers to use more aluminum hoods, bumpers, suspension components and possibly engine cradles.

But GM "is not going to use any technology that they are not already comfortable with," Schultz said. "Everything is happening just a little bit faster, but it's something they know how to do."
__________________
Tran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 03:50 PM   #2
90503


 
90503's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS LS3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Torrance
Posts: 14,395
Maybe we can get an affordable stripped down/light-weight drag-car from the factory now, after all...lol
90503 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 04:04 PM   #3
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 31,876
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
I wonder if that 15% is a fleet number....

The Zeta to Alpha platform weight difference isn't even 15% for the V6 models (it's more like 10%)...wow, that's ambitious!

I didn't see it explicitly mentioned in the article - GM just co-developed (I think it was a co-development) a new way to produce carbon fiber body panels for about half the cost as in the past...the only downside to this is that you can't see the fibers, because it's made much the same as fiberglass is blown onto a mold. A clear-coat would just reveal an ugly of stringy-things. But it's strong, and light!!
__________________
"Keep the faith." - Fbodfather
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 06:59 PM   #4
KMPrenger


 
KMPrenger's Avatar
 
Drives: 16 Camaro SS, 15 Colorado
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jefferson City, Missouri
Posts: 13,941
It sounds good, but I'd be shocked if they could meet that goal.

Do I think they should start producing midsize cars and sedans in the 3,200 to 3,500 lb range like other makers??? Heck Yes!! (the new Nissan Altima weighs a feathery 3,1xx lbs)

But going from one generation to the next...say for instance the Camaro. Do I think they can take the current 3,800 lb Camaro and take its weight to 3,250 lbs (15%) without changing the size of the car? Doubtful.

Unless they have another, ultra-light weight chasis they haven't yet unveiled that is lighter than Alpha, I don't see it happening. Just take a look at the ATS weights...and that thing is pretty light when you really compare. V6 Camaro is a good 300+ lbs more:

2.5L RWD / Auto – (3315/ 1503)
2.0 Turbo RWD / Auto – (3373/ 1530)
2.0 Turbo RWD / Man – (3403/ 1543)
2.0 Turbo AWD / Auto – (3543 / 1607)
3.6L RWD / Auto – (3461/ 1570)
3.6L AWD / Auto – (3629/ 1646)

Now, I'm sure the caddy is filled with more tech, and possibly other stuff like more sound dampening material and what not, so I'm bettering a respective T4 or V6 camaro on Alpha can weigh a tad less than this, but another couple hundred lbs??

Show us what you've got GM.
__________________
2016 Camaro 1SS - 8-speed - NPP - Black bowties
2010 Camaro 1LT V6 (Sold. I will miss her!)
KMPrenger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 07:16 PM   #5
The_Blur
Moderator
 
The_Blur's Avatar
 
Drives: 2018 Harley-Davidson Street Bob
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 14,769
Send a message via AIM to The_Blur
This makes me happy. Weight is going to be a big player in the future of the auto industry.
__________________
RDP Motorsport//GEN5DIY//Cultrag Performance//JPSS//Rodgets Chevrolet//
Operation Demon//Buy at Invoice//RACECARWEAR
RESPECT ALL CARS. LOVE YOUR OWN.
warn 145:159 ban
The_Blur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:59 PM   #6
Captain Awesome
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 3,746
This frightens me to the point the hairs stood up on my neck. I see a lot of blather about needing to comply with CAFE and the other car companies are also feeling pressure to do the same.

Remember when the car company CEOs would go to washington and FIGHT against these onerous regulations?

Those were the days.
Captain Awesome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 11:08 PM   #7
Xello
 
Xello's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 CGM 2SS/RS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kenosha, WI
Posts: 387
Maybe the 15% in weight reduction is for the total fleet not individual models? Kind of like the CAFE standards are.
Could probably shave a few Suburban pounds fairly easily.
Xello is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 12:08 AM   #8
KarFan
 
KarFan's Avatar
 
Drives: 2023 SGM Camaro 2SS 1LE 6M
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 575
That's a very ambitious goal in a short timeframe. Considering that a few MY 2016 cars are already in development.

There would need to be some kind of fundamental shift in materials or content on newer cars. Because even with all the advances of the C7 it's not likely to be any lighter than the C6. Higher grade content made from higher quality materials add weight. And that trend isn't changing.
KarFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 12:12 AM   #9
Captain Awesome
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 3,746
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90503 View Post
Sounds like the CEO is perhaps voluntarily go above and beyond what's required...dunno...

...I sort of remember Detroit fighting emissions standards and what-not back in the day...as the foreign competition was embracing it and getting a leg-up...
I bet you a week's pay it is something more akin to this:

"Say, that's a nice lookin' corporation ya gots there.... it would be a shame if sumptin' waz ta happen to it!"

Magnesium costs about 50% more than Aluminum. I just don't want to have to hear a lot of complaints when people get sticker shock. It also kinda can catch fire and burn up an entire car. They make fireworks out of that nifty metal.
Captain Awesome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 03:01 AM   #10
fielderLS3


 
fielderLS3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 Mazda6, 2011 Mustang 5.0
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Portage, Wisconsin
Posts: 4,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post
I bet you a week's pay it is something more akin to this:

"Say, that's a nice lookin' corporation ya gots there.... it would be a shame if sumptin' waz ta happen to it!"
It may have already happened.

I'd be curious to know what Akerson based his target on. He's not an engineer, is he? I wonder if knowledgeable advisers suggested this was doable and practical, or if like CAFE, it was a case of "if we arbitrarily mandate it, it will just magically happen" thinking.

These guys aren't just making up rules anymore, now they've infiltrated into the companies themselves.
__________________
2022 1SS 1LE (Arrived 4/29/22)
"The car is the closest thing we will ever create to something that is alive."
. 2022 1SS 1LE (Coming Soon)

Last edited by fielderLS3; 03-13-2013 at 03:12 AM.
fielderLS3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 08:17 AM   #11
The_Blur
Moderator
 
The_Blur's Avatar
 
Drives: 2018 Harley-Davidson Street Bob
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 14,769
Send a message via AIM to The_Blur
If you don't like CAFE, deal with the government. Complaining that GM is compliant is not helpful. If GM stood against fuel economy standards, there would be a publicity fight with all the people who support them, and that's bad for business.

This community has advocated weight reduction for a long time. To be scared of getting exactly what we want is ridiculous.
__________________
RDP Motorsport//GEN5DIY//Cultrag Performance//JPSS//Rodgets Chevrolet//
Operation Demon//Buy at Invoice//RACECARWEAR
RESPECT ALL CARS. LOVE YOUR OWN.
warn 145:159 ban
The_Blur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 09:27 AM   #12
Firefighter


 
Firefighter's Avatar
 
Drives: Black '13 2SS/RS/1LE w/NPP/NAV
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Tampa by way of Miami...
Posts: 4,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post
This frightens me to the point the hairs stood up on my neck. I see a lot of blather about needing to comply with CAFE and the other car companies are also feeling pressure to do the same.

Remember when the car company CEOs would go to washington and FIGHT against these onerous regulations?

Those were the days.

I agree wholeheartedly...
Firefighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 10:36 AM   #13
FenwickHockey65
General Motors Aficionado
 
FenwickHockey65's Avatar
 
Drives: 2023 GMC Canyon, 2020 Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 37,371
Send a message via AIM to FenwickHockey65
Only on Camaro5 would reducing vehicle weight (which is something enthusiasts and the media have been clamoring at GM to do and is addressing an acknowledged problem with GM platforms) be interpreted as a bad thing.
__________________
2023 GMC Canyon Elevation
2020 Chevrolet Colorado W/T Extended Cab (State-issued)
FenwickHockey65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 10:40 AM   #14
The_Blur
Moderator
 
The_Blur's Avatar
 
Drives: 2018 Harley-Davidson Street Bob
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 14,769
Send a message via AIM to The_Blur
Quote:
Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65 View Post
Only on Camaro5 would reducing vehicle weight (which is something enthusiasts and the media have been clamoring at GM to do and is addressing an acknowledged problem with GM platforms) be interpreted as a bad thing.
It's disappointing to say the least. We ask for it, GM delivers, and some people still complain.
__________________
RDP Motorsport//GEN5DIY//Cultrag Performance//JPSS//Rodgets Chevrolet//
Operation Demon//Buy at Invoice//RACECARWEAR
RESPECT ALL CARS. LOVE YOUR OWN.
warn 145:159 ban
The_Blur is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Post Reply

Tags
2015 camaro, 2015 camaro forum, 2015 camaro forums, 2015 chevrolet camaro, 2015 chevy camaro, 2016 camaro, 2016 camaro forum, 2016 camaro forums, 2016 chevrolet camaro, 2016 chevy camaro, 2017 camaro, 2017 chevy camaro, 6 gen camaro, 6th gen camaro, 6th gen camaro forum, 6th gen camaro forums, 6th gen camaro info, 6th gen camaro news, 6th gen camaro rumors, 6th gen chevrolet camaro, 6th gen chevy camaro, 6th gen chevy camaro forum, 6th generation camaro, 6th generation camaro info, 6th generation camaro news

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.