[ksa]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

Absolutely it feels like a downgrade. Is the Camaro a good value? You bet... and maybe one of the best right now. But if you have a high attention to detail like i do, you will notice lots of stuff that isn't great. Most of it is stuff I can and will live with. The car will feel more hard core than your e92, most likely. I've spent a little time in an e90 m3 and I owned 3 e90 335is. The interior will feels more modern but isn't as well laid out. Storage is poor.

The e92 m3 is an awesome car man. If you want something new, different, etc, I think you definitely owe yourself a couple test drives.

I couldn't justify 950/MO for how little I was driving, so I am putting the savings aside towards my next car. I don't regret the decision because I knew what I was doing. The F80 has a much more updated interior than the e92, but the e92 has a pretty sweet sounding V8.

There are some upgrades and some downgrades... but even then a lot is subjective. New cars are always fun and you can always enjoy it for what it is and get something else later! I'll probably have this for 4 years then get a 911GTS or GT3 is my plan. I may hold onto the Camaro even bc itll be mostly/entirely paid off by then. If it's fun on the track I may end up caging it and making it my track car!

Don't take my word for it... go rent one for a weekend and put miles on it. I test drove the manual and auto each for a total of like an hour before I made my mind up. That's probably minimum.

Thanks for sharing your opinion man. It does help a lot. I love my current car and sometimes when i am driving it I think what the hell am I talking about getting rid of it. I have Dinan exhaust, carbon fibre intake and tune on it and it sounds absolutely amazing going through the DCT transmission. Obviously there is no denying that it has the class/prestige factor that chevy simply doesn't.

It's like once, I had a Ferrari F430 try to race from a stop light when I had my C63 and he didn't come close when it was all done. After that he stated back and didn't try to overtake or anything. It was funny and all well and good but in my head I was like, I wish I was the one driving the Ferrari. haha.

I am going to test drive the Camaro for sure and see if it blows me away. While finance isn't really a factor for me to make the switch it can't hurt. The payments will be similar to my E92 but i'd get out of financing and get into leasing which its what I truly want to do so I can switch more often. But is that reason good enough to 'downgrade' is what I need to think about I guess.

I can always keep the M for another year or so and eventually trade it in for a different car so it's not like I am in rush or anything. Presumably financial situation would be better as time goes by so I could look at upgrading in every way.

Originally Posted by human29

Not sure if the helps or not. I had a deposit down on a new M3 and was going to order and go with euro delivery. They did not have any in stock so I waiting until I was able to test drive one. I was killing time one day and stopped by the local chevy dealer just to see a new camaro as the wife and I owned a few in our younger days. Was not a fan of the Gen 5's but was blown away at the Gen 6. I asked the sales guy for the keys to look inside and he came out with a plate and insisted we drive the car. Well, I know have a Camaro on order. The MT video made me go look in the first place and they were right when they said only thing wrong with the car is says "Chevy and Camaro". Other then that is blows the M3 away unless you are looking for prestige. I went back and drove the M3 once they had one in stock to be sure and it solidified my decision.

Congrats on your purchase, the Camaro is most definitely an amazing vehicle. And I did watch that video when it says that the only thing working against it is the Chevy badge. I guess it remains to be seen if I can get over it. Have a lot of thinking to do I suppose, the decision isn't easy at all.

[6spdhyperblue]

i wouldnt want to own a BMW out of warranty. i would imagine a M car to be worse.

ive been through and through on LSx cars and they are much more forgiving on the wallet and much much cheaper to mod.

at the end of the day, new is new. used without a warranty is what it is.

they cover the SS under warranty under track usage 5-60k

[ksa]

That is certainly a factor as my warranty is up next year in January. Part of the reason I started thinking about the swap. So far, I haven't gotten any decent offers for trade-in value's which means this won't be possible. I am not desperate so I am not going to get rid of the M at a massive loss or anything. Worst case scenario, I will keep it for another year or so and then get rid of it for lesser loss and then think about the swap.

[WhyUMad1LE]

Originally Posted by ksa

That is certainly a closer comparison to what I have been thinking about. German powerful cars to American. Have you made up your mind on the Camaro? The 1LE won't come out until next year and while theoretically I can wait, I don't think I need the 1LE package as I indicated I plan to drive in winter and that sort of power would be just plain stupid. Would you not feel less of an 'exclusivity' or 'prestigiousness' having driven Porsche's, BMW's etc to getting into a Chevrolet? I guess that's a personal thing but good to know the thought process.

Just FYI- 1LE is scheduled to release Q4 of this year. It doesn't add any power, but it does add an actively controlled mechanical limited slip differential (not unlike the M-diff), Recaro seats, and revised chassis for sharper turn-in. Coming from an M3 you may prefer the more neutral balance of the 1LE.

[BigGuy81]

Originally Posted by jdasnt3

I've never owned or driven a BMW, so I can't help you there, but Motortrend did a comparo between the SS and M4. I have a link to our forum discussion. Go to at least page 7 to start since the article took a while to release after Motortrend's teaser.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=438207

That comparison is more or less irreverent to any discussion vs. the e92 M3. The M4 is a completely different car from the e92 M3.

I've actually driven all 3. Like most modern BMWs, the M4 is numb and feels like you're playing a video game. I basically agree with everything said in the MT video. It doesn't feel special at all. It just feels like another turbocharged luxury car made for people who care more about badge than anything else. The leather is very nice, though.

The e92 M3 is a unique animal. It feels special. The engine noise and the way it makes power are completely different than anything you can buy today besides maybe a GT350. The DCT combined with the S65 are a match made in automotive heaven. You feel much more connected to the car than you do in the M4. It feels lighter somehow even though it's actually heavier. The tech on the inside is starting to show its age compared to the SS.

The 2SS Maro w/MR and NPP is just awesome. To me, it makes a used M3 almost pointless because it offers so much of what makes that car great but with modern tech and a warranty. The 8AT doesn't touch the DCT, though, and the car's inputs (steering, throttle) don't have the razor sharp response you get in the M3. The engine, however, is better in day to day driving and has a much more usable torque curve. The magnetic suspension is probably the only DD suspension setup I've ever experienced that balanced handling and ride better than the M3.

If I had to pick one, I'd probably get the SS, but I think the smart money should wait until the 10AT from the ZL1 trickles down to it (assuming you go with the AT, ignore if you go MT), or wait for used ZL1s to drop in price. I mean, if a used ZL1 is a $45k car in a few years, that would be a no-brainer for me.

[LibertyHill]

We traded the torque monster 335D for the SS with zero regrets. That car needed over 13k in warranty repairs from 45-85k miles. The old JB4 335i is still in the garage and while just as fast, it does not compare. It has had turbos, a water pump, injectors, coils, and a pulley in 100k. A Maxima went almost 200k for us before needing a single repair.

I disagree with those that cite major differences in refinement and find the Camaro equal or better in almost every way. In general it seems the differences between the average commuter vehicle and higher-end or luxury vehicles seems to be diminishing more every year. The most significant difference in the Camaro is the suspension performance, and the only fault I have found is substantial tire noise on rough Texas roads. I wouldn't trade that noise for a 100 lbs. of Dynamat. Performance > silence IMO.

[bpang1234]

Not a direct comparison either but I just came from a 2015 Audi S4 (stage 1 at about 400hp crank with the dual clutch trans). The Audi was a good car and it was a nice experience being in a luxury car.

However, the Camaro SS is just heads and shoulders above it in terms of performance and doesn't feel like a huge step down in luxury / interior. Actually more people have commented in favor of the Camaro's interior since I've owned it (1.5 months) than the entire year I owned the S4.

Also, the infotainment is lightyears ahead of the Audi and I would think any luxury car not brand new.

[G Fo12ce]

To the OP. I did skip over a few threads so not sure if this was mentioned. In reference to refinement. Did you mean fit and finish or materials? If you want leather and a few other options you want a 2SS. The 1LE has some very cool performance stuff but only comes in the 1SS trim. You have to ask yourself how much track driving you'll do or how meaningful the 1LE options are to you in comparison.

[TheUnscented]

As a long time (15 years) C5 6M convertible 'Vette owner I had grown accustomed to gobs of torque, excellent visibilty and a lousy interior. The vette was growing old, it's lack of a rear seat made it an impractical vehicle for a family man but each time I drove it, I decided to hang on to it a little longer.

A test drive in the 2016 Camaro SS convinced me it was time to move on. The engine is incredible: torquey, awesome interior & features, dual personality (dual mode exhaust), handsome styling. Having a GM drivetrain you know that it will be reasonably cheap to repair and maintain for long term owner---just like my C5 was. Downsides: the "stigma" of Camaro ownership and the tight rear seat.

I marginally like the style of the Mustang GT better but the Camaro SS crushes it in nearly every metric. Enter the Shelby GT350 trac-pack. I decided to buy a GT350 and went a-shopping. Being a used-car guy, it's was a sea-change to pay retail, let alone full sticker but I was willing. Numerous dealerships lured me in at a verbal promise of letting it go a full-sticker only to be switched to a dealer mark-up of $5000-10,000. Frustrated, I let that die. Ford should saturate the market with these such that dealers accept a normal profit. If they don't, shareholders should fire the management team.

Back on the market with a healthy budget I settled on a pristine low-mileage 2009 E92 M3 non-EDC 6M. Someone preserved this nearly new car just for me, it seems. It's my daily 3-season driver, healthy backroad vehicle. It's an easy place to park $35,000 while depreciation wears away the prices of the GT350, SS and Chevy gets around to the Z28 & ZL1. The M3 is the last of the naturally aspirated engines, the only V8 model and the last with hydraulic steering. When it's time to move on, someone will want it for a track car if I've worn it out.

Comparing my M3 to the Camaro SS, I think the 2016 Camaro is the better vehicle in every way except badge appeal and a marginally nicer interior. When I picked up my M3, I noticed on the way home how it crashed over pavement breaks compared to my 18 year old C5. The M3's V8 is a pleasure to wring out but you've got to be careful to keep it in the meaty portion of the powerband. The LS1 engine (down 110 HP from the 2016 Camaro) was NEVER in the wrong gear. Averaging 15.1 MPG on a small tank, I'm visiting the gas station every other day. The C5 averaged about 22 MPG over the 90,000 miles I put on it--the Camaro has cylinder deactivation so count on a similar, if not better gas mileage.

The Camaro SS has a basic engine structure shared with a stable of GM vehicle, the M3 does not. The Camaro will be relatively cheap to maintain and modify; is there anything scarier than an out-of-warranty BMW? So why buy an M3? Well, if you're a car guy and you only live once, it's worth owning a V-8 M3 even for just a few years.

If you're the type of buyer to stick with the same car for many years, I think that the 2016 Camaro SS is a great car from a value and performance perspective.

[LibertyHill]

Originally Posted by human29

The MT video made me go look in the first place and they were right when they said only thing wrong with the car is says "Chevy and Camaro". Other then that is blows the M3 away unless you are looking for prestige.

I find that is one of the things most right with the car. Coming from two previous 335Is this car is everything those were and more. I don't feel I'm sacrificing anything except the coddling. I also find it much easier to merge into traffic in a Chevrolet than in a BMW. Your results may vary.

[TheUnscented]

Prior to buying my M3, I rented (thanks Turo.com) a 2015 M4 DCT (chipped out to 500hp) for a day of beating in the San Gabriel mountains.

Beautiful car, insane torque and tons of grip. Unfortunately to get his $75,000 BMW to that level of performance the owner had to add $20k worth of tuning, tire and suspension mods---then had put it up for daily rentals to afford to cover the cost. The car was a track beast but rode insanely rough and was extremely loud. Oddly enough the BMW badge wasn't enough to offset its shortcomings for my wife.

The SS is available with the magnet-o-whatever suspension and the dual mode exhaust. For $45k you can have your cake and eat it too.

[Vectors2Final]

Interesting... a JB4 and downpipes will get you over 500RWHP in an F8x

[Lafourche1]

Originally Posted by LibertyHill

We traded the torque monster 335D for the SS with zero regrets. That car needed over 13k in warranty repairs from 45-85k miles. The old JB4 335i is still in the garage and while just as fast, it does not compare. It has had turbos, a water pump, injectors, coils, and a pulley in 100k. A Maxima went almost 200k for us before needing a single repair.

I disagree with those that cite major differences in refinement and find the Camaro equal or better in almost every way. In general it seems the differences between the average commuter vehicle and higher-end or luxury vehicles seems to be diminishing more every year. The most significant difference in the Camaro is the suspension performance, and the only fault I have found is substantial tire noise on rough Texas roads. I wouldn't trade that noise for a 100 lbs. of Dynamat. Performance > silence IMO.

I've not had any M Series BMW. However, I had a 335i convertible and a 530i sedan in the last 5 years. The 335 was a nice car and it had the upgraded seats (about $2k extra if I remember). All that being said, the SS has as nice or nicer interior and just way more power and handling. I find the MRC to be a great option and cannot imagine not having it.

FWIW, I still think that Jaguar builds the nicest interiors (period).

[attymf]

I ran a 2013 M3 the other day and blew its doors off. Wasn't even close. As for refinement and daily driver I suppose that's more of a subjective decision.