[BradfordCamaro]

Miata guy all dressed up for Formula one seemed like a Douche too.

I don't want to work it out...I want to go back out on the track.

[Mountain]

I purposely DIDN'T read any responses and and replying without doing so.

Read this in the mindset of a HPDE/track day and NOT a real race.

I think it is more of the guy who was hit, the S2000, fault, and here's why: The Miata was up front and in the normal driving line. Yes, by all means, everyone should be constantly checking their mirrors and watching for traffic. BUT this being a track day, you cannot fully expect that, and in that, one takes the risk of getting hit. If you are to pass someone, it is your responsibility to make sure it is feasible without putting other drivers at risk. The S2000 simply expected the Miata to move over and just went for it.

The way the Miata driver deals with the situation is deplorable.

[OminouSS]

Shared responsibility. Typical gentlemen racing etiquette. However, the driver attempting the pass is at fault because it could not be completed safely. It sucks because the Miata dude was clearly out of sorts and had terrible situational awareness. This sort of thing happens at least once per event, minus contact, in my experience. You just have to back out of the pass and hope that the other driver has clued into your existence.

[meyouand987.2]

All of the events I run are in "race like conditions" and stated as such. I cannot see any way the Miata is at fault, he is simply following the line and was turning in for the next turn when the s2000 occupied the space. This little buttercup needs to man up and deal with that he is on a track, not the supermarket parking lot.

[Sub]

Ive been to a lot of track days.. my groups were mostly point to pass, but imo the s2000 was totally in the wrong. You cant assume everyone is going to see you and id never pass on a corner like that. He is stupid.

[OminouSS]

Originally Posted by BradfordCamaro

Miata guy all dressed up for Formula one seemed like a Douche too.

I don't want to work it out...I want to go back out on the track.

Seriously. Who the EF says that? How 'bout, no. Get the hell out of here. I don't care who is at 'fault'. That's just a shit-head attitude and I am reminded that these personalities exist among us at 140 mph.

[Z3papa]

Originally Posted by Sub

Ive been to a lot of track days.. my groups were mostly point to pass, but imo the s2000 was totally in the wrong. You cant assume everyone is going to see you and id never pass on a corner like that. He is stupid.

I get this completely. If I were "racing" W2W, maybe I'd try this but in any HPDE I've been to (~15), I always adhere to the passing guidelines and if I'm in this situation pass on the corner exit by simply carrying more speed on track out whether it is off line if need be. The Miata guy's response is why I do less track days than I used to. There are some real bone heads out there.

[PinHead]

Originally Posted by JeromeS13

If that's an HPDE session, the S2000 shouldn't be passing the guy in a turn, unless he's 100% sure the Miata knows he's there.

^^^^^
THIS

Miata was entering for the Apex.

This guy's trying to justify his poor driving and put the blame on soneone else.

I wonder if he has an SCCA License, (I bet not)

Why do some people have an unstoppable urge to put their FACE in from of a video camera and Whine?

[PinHead]

Originally Posted by OminouSS

Seriously. Who the EF says that? How 'bout, no. Get the hell out of here. I don't care who is at 'fault'. That's just a shit-head attitude and I am reminded that these personalities exist among us at 140 mph.

IMHO he reacted to the video recording shoved in his Car.

Working an issue out Man-to-Man DOES NOT need to be video recorded.

Video Recording when someone tells you directly he's not discussing it on video and the recording continues = DOUCHE

[NCSD]

I don't get the miata guys attitude.

[OminouSS]

Originally Posted by PinHead

IMHO he reacted to the video recording shoved in his Car.

Working an issue out Man-to-Man DOES NOT need to be video recorded.

Video Recording when someone tells you directly he's not discussing it on video and the recording continues = DOUCHE

Agreed. I said pretty much that exactly in response to the guy's video on his channel. But a guy telling the official, 'we can't work it out, I'd like to go back out' after a contact incident???? Both are doosheronis.

[Cap'n Pete]

Originally Posted by OminouSS

Shared responsibility. Typical gentlemen racing etiquette. However, the driver attempting the pass is at fault because it could not be completed safely. It sucks because the Miata dude was clearly out of sorts and had terrible situational awareness.

Agreed, 100%.

My thoughts (I posted in the youtube comments):

Don't know the track. Don't know the normal set of rules that track/club usually follow. However, based on the Miata driver's behavior (not obeying black flags) and reaction after the fact, I'd say it was probably more his "ignorance" than "fault", but responsibility is a solid 50/50, IMO.

Fast or slow, you need to be aware of who is around you. If you're aware that the slow car ahead is out for a Sunday drive, and oblivious of who's around, take heed. If you're the slow car ahead, sticking to your line, and "some guy" in a faster car comes flying up from behind you and takes your line ......... if you're a competent driver, you can EASILY compensate for that, and avoid the collision.

I've only been over-taken ONCE on the inside like that, on a track day where point-by was the rule, by a guy in a Porsche who took a late pass WITHOUT MY SIGNAL, and forced me to go wide. Nobody crashed, nobody died, but it required MY attention (as the slower driver) to avoid a crash.

The Miata driver was clearly "asleep at the wheel", in my opinion. But obviously, the S2000 driver took a chance and lost, and that's his fault.

[glamcem]

I don't see what's wrong with Miata driver's attitude. He honestly describes what and why exactly this happened. S2000 driver is clearly at fault as he cannot simply assume that the guy front of him has to predict everything and -as the Miata driver mentioned -
he took his line and he didn't even wait for the point by (assuming it's an HPDE) or somewhere safe to pass also.. probably because he didn't want to ruin his "fast" lap...

on top of that, he blames the guy and tries to make fun of him by saying " the guy thinks he's a racer..etc" like any of that is his business..

"hit and run"? really?

[TrackClub]

Meant to share my thoughts on this much earlier, but here they go nevertheless:

Firstly, I would completely agree (as suggested by a few posts already) that both drivers share responsibility here, regardless of the rules, as IF the Miata driver wasn't asleep at the wheel there would be no accident, just an "oh shit" moment and those do happen from time to time.

But, we don't know what the rules were for this event. So:
1) if this was point bys mandatory, then the Honda is at fault
2) if this was pass anywhere except for apex and no point bys then still Honda's.
3) if this was pass anywhere period, no point bys then it is the Miata's for 2 reasons:

1) it is absolutely unacceptable for him to insist he didn't see the Honda coming as it didn't just vaporize next to him, or actually AHEAD of him. Rather, the Miata had zero situational awareness which is inexcusable regardless of the rules but especially if the rules somewhat point to #3 above (he had a window net...)
2) assuming (and we don't know) that #3 rules were in force, then in effect RACE rules prevail. Miata had plenty of track to avoid turning in when he did. This is well supported by NASA HPDE 4/race rules with drawing examples of who is in fault in case of contact.

Most importantly, Id say this: if you have an "off day", feel tired, or don't know how to set up side mirrors to eliminate "blind spots" - then just go home, rest up and study proper mirror set up.

To add to some examples already posted, I have been passed without giving a required point by, in a no passing zone at T4 at Mosport going 115mph. Me and the idiot avoided touching doors by inches - because I saw him coming.

I have been given a point by then ran off the track at the entry of T2 at Mosport (car width run off) by a driver who just closed the door WHILE I was passing him.

I have been drag raced into a corner by many after been given a point by. What happens at the corner entry and apex can become very interesting and once committed it is not always a smart idea to back out if there is fast traffic behind you.


I could go on as I am sure many of us here could. As somebody already said: shit happens. So lets stay awake. And yes, a couple of times folks were pissed at me as things can get complex in a hurry.

Bottom line FOR ME: no one driver holds an ultimate responsibility for executing a clean and safe pass no matter what the rules say. It takes 2 (and sometimes more!) to tango here and ALL have to be aware of each other's position during the maneuver. Being situationally aware is key regardless of rules because anyone can have a brain fart. I never just give a point by and "hope" the other driver does it well because the rules say he is "responsible". I watch them until they are thru. I do the same when I am passing as well. Until I am clear I wanna know where they are and where they are going. I prefer when orgs place responsibility on both drivers, including the one being passed held responsible for FACILITATING the pass. This makes a lot more sense to me.

Lastly, Id have a few choice words for the Honda guy sticking a camera in my face because he wants YouTube fame. But id eject the Miata guy from the event immediately regardless who was officially at fault. Why? Because ALL rules require a driver who has contact of any kind to pit asap and he was oblivious and continued to lap as if nothing happened. Then he missed black flags for 2 laps. Completely asleep and a potential menace to others regardless of the rules.