[Number 3]

Originally Posted by gringo

I believe they can monitor conversations inside the car. Be careful, big brother is listening.

Nope, even if they could they don't.

Your phone is more capable of listening in on your life than your car so why is everyone thinking OnStar is some horrible thing when the same stories everyone is afraid of are true with the device in your pocket. It has GPS and a microphone.

Originally Posted by dpevans

Every car sold has a "black Box". It records just about everything. If you are in an accident they will have data from your car. Now how long it goes back, what long term data it stores I do not know.

6 seconds. Federal mandate. All cars have a recording of the last 6 seconds which includes the basics, throttle, brakes, steering angle, and I believe speed.

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

I'm willing to bet they sell the speed info to insurance companies.

For your benefit of course

No they don't.

Everyone needs to stop thinking of OnStar as Google, who DOES sell everything you do.

They say that Amazon is so good now at tracking what you do that they know what you will buy just by how long you hover your cursor over an item.

OnStar is not Google. And unless you give explicit permission, which you can do for insurance SAVINGS, they don't.

Originally Posted by Rustydaytons

What good is OnStar? What do people pay them for? If u are stranded? I have AAA. If u need directions have phone. No need to pay on star for anything

The basics is crash notification. Get in an accident, they can detect airbag deployment and send emergency services right away. That's a piece of mind thing. For some there is value in that, me included. For others that are certain they will never get in an accident, then it's a waste of money. I wish I were good enough to know I would never get in an accident then I'd probably save the $15 per month too.

As for the NAV and Concierge services, I've never found them useful.....or at least worth the money.

For some folks, if you like hitting a button, talking to someone who can download directions to your car, that's a good thing. Most people don't and many simply prefer Google maps.

Also OnStar will tell you what your CEL is, which can be nice.

[Rustydaytons]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Nope, even if they could they don't.

Your phone is more capable of listening in on your life than your car so why is everyone thinking OnStar is some horrible thing when the same stories everyone is afraid of are true with the device in your pocket. It has GPS and a microphone.



6 seconds. Federal mandate. All cars have a recording of the last 6 seconds which includes the basics, throttle, brakes, steering angle, and I believe speed.



No they don't.

Everyone needs to stop thinking of OnStar as Google, who DOES sell everything you do.

They say that Amazon is so good now at tracking what you do that they know what you will buy just by how long you hover your cursor over an item.

OnStar is not Google. And unless you give explicit permission, which you can do for insurance SAVINGS, they don't.



The basics is crash notification. Get in an accident, they can detect airbag deployment and send emergency services right away. That's a piece of mind thing. For some there is value in that, me included. For others that are certain they will never get in an accident, then it's a waste of money. I wish I were good enough to know I would never get in an accident then I'd probably save the $15 per month too.

As for the NAV and Concierge services, I've never found them useful.....or at least worth the money.

For some folks, if you like hitting a button, talking to someone who can download directions to your car, that's a good thing. Most people don't and many simply prefer Google maps.

Also OnStar will tell you what your CEL is, which can be nice.

Rather spend the 15 bucks on blue cans. I drive my Camaro about 200 miles a month.

[gringo]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Nope, even if they could they don't.

Your phone is more capable of listening in on your life than your car.

Yes, that true. However, Onstar can be used to monitor conversations inside the car with a court order or under the "Patriot Act". The technology is embedded to have that capability and it has been done in a few cases. Just saying....

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by gringo

Yes, that true. However, Onstar can be used to monitor conversations inside the car with a court order or under the "Patriot Act". The technology is embedded to have that capability and it has been done in a few cases. Just saying....

Agree but OnStar doesn’t do iteithout being compelled to. They are asked to by people who have such authority. Meaning you are a person of interest to a Federal Law Enforcement Agency if it is done.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Nope, even if they could they don't.

Your phone is more capable of listening in on your life than your car so why is everyone thinking OnStar is some horrible thing when the same stories everyone is afraid of are true with the device in your pocket. It has GPS and a microphone.



6 seconds. Federal mandate. All cars have a recording of the last 6 seconds which includes the basics, throttle, brakes, steering angle, and I believe speed.



No they don't.

Everyone needs to stop thinking of OnStar as Google, who DOES sell everything you do.

They say that Amazon is so good now at tracking what you do that they know what you will buy just by how long you hover your cursor over an item.

OnStar is not Google. And unless you give explicit permission, which you can do for insurance SAVINGS, they don't.



The basics is crash notification. Get in an accident, they can detect airbag deployment and send emergency services right away. That's a piece of mind thing. For some there is value in that, me included. For others that are certain they will never get in an accident, then it's a waste of money. I wish I were good enough to know I would never get in an accident then I'd probably save the $15 per month too.

As for the NAV and Concierge services, I've never found them useful.....or at least worth the money.

For some folks, if you like hitting a button, talking to someone who can download directions to your car, that's a good thing. Most people don't and many simply prefer Google maps.

Also OnStar will tell you what your CEL is, which can be nice.

There's nothing in the privacy agreement for onstar that says they can't. And there are sections that explicitly say they do track and share information with certain business partners. What they do say is that they anonymize such data but to what extent they dont say and it may not matter. Just reporting that camaro's in xyz zipcode exceed the speed limit some % of the time is still going to impact you.

So I dont give them the benefit of the doubt. They're a company collecting data all the time (even after you cancel). They're not just sitting on it.

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

There's nothing in the privacy agreement for onstar that says they can't. And there are sections that explicitly say they do track and share information with certain business partners. What they do say is that they anonymize such data but to what extent they dont say and it may not matter. Just reporting that camaro's in xyz zipcode exceed the speed limit some % of the time is still going to impact you.

So I dont give them the benefit of the doubt. They're a company collecting data all the time (even after you cancel). They're not just sitting on it.

When has there ever been a proven case of such data collection finding its way to law enforcement or insurance companies without the explicit permission of the owner of a specific vehicle, or without OnStar having first been served with a warrant for such information?

That they CAN (or in this case, that they don't spell out what they'll do one way or another) doesn't mean they ARE. Whether you give them the benefit of the doubt or not is your business, but your beliefs are not the same thing as objective facts.

For all you know, the information collected might be that x % of GM vehicle owners in a given region are subscribed to OnStar, and the business partner it's shared with is an ad agency looking to use that to get still more subscribers - not terribly insidious or impactful. In fact GM did do just that sort of thing when they advertised their new unlimited data plans a while back, when they noted how many millions of hours of streaming GM owners had done, and the Sun still came up the next day.

[fastball]

With all the advanced safety features on the Camaro today I'll take my chances that if I'm in an accident the difference in time it takes for OnStar to call and send EMS and someone else who either witnesses the accident or is involved in it calling 911 is so insignificant that either way I'll be fine or dead.

The only way OnStar notification is actually helpful is if you hit a buffalo in the middle of Montana on a desolate highway at 2:00 in the morning.

Living in a densely populated part of suburban Cleveland where there's always someone out and about even in the most remote parts or time of day someone will be there to witness any accident I may have.

[JeffFox]

They do, but I covered the car in tin foil so they can't track me so I'm good

Smooth move, very smooth!

[rotohead]

Originally Posted by GA Camaro 2SS

Does onstar monitor your speed ?

Pull the fuse!

[SSJ455]

Originally Posted by JeffFox

They do, but I covered the car in tin foil so they can't track me so I'm good

Smooth move, very smooth!

Thanks

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

There's nothing in the privacy agreement for onstar that says they can't. And there are sections that explicitly say they do track and share information with certain business partners. What they do say is that they anonymize such data but to what extent they dont say and it may not matter. Just reporting that camaro's in xyz zipcode exceed the speed limit some % of the time is still going to impact you.

So I dont give them the benefit of the doubt. They're a company collecting data all the time (even after you cancel). They're not just sitting on it.

Data is king which is why Google stock is near $1,000 per share. They don't MAKE anything. But they do gather data.

As I've mentioned, Amazon knows when you are going to buy something simply by your mouse position and hovering time on an item.

I am pretty sure that if you average the speed of Camaros in a zip code it will simply average out as the average speed of Camaros. I could be wrong, but GM isn't selling anyone YOUR data.

Originally Posted by Lazerbrainz2k3

When has there ever been a proven case of such data collection finding its way to law enforcement or insurance companies without the explicit permission of the owner of a specific vehicle, or without OnStar having first been served with a warrant for such information?

That they CAN (or in this case, that they don't spell out what they'll do one way or another) doesn't mean they ARE. Whether you give them the benefit of the doubt or not is your business, but your beliefs are not the same thing as objective facts.

For all you know, the information collected might be that x % of GM vehicle owners in a given region are subscribed to OnStar, and the business partner it's shared with is an ad agency looking to use that to get still more subscribers - not terribly insidious or impactful. In fact GM did do just that sort of thing when they advertised their new unlimited data plans a while back, when they noted how many millions of hours of streaming GM owners had done, and the Sun still came up the next day.

Yep

Originally Posted by fastball

With all the advanced safety features on the Camaro today I'll take my chances that if I'm in an accident the difference in time it takes for OnStar to call and send EMS and someone else who either witnesses the accident or is involved in it calling 911 is so insignificant that either way I'll be fine or dead.

The only way OnStar notification is actually helpful is if you hit a buffalo in the middle of Montana on a desolate highway at 2:00 in the morning.

Living in a densely populated part of suburban Cleveland where there's always someone out and about even in the most remote parts or time of day someone will be there to witness any accident I may have.

Not sure what "with all the advanced safety features" means to you, but OnStar is one of those advanced safety features.

If you want to count on someone else calling or that someone else is around, cool. You are correct, many times that is the case.................and many more it is not. That's the service. If you want to count on others to call great. But if you look into EMS, you will find in many cases seconds DO matter. For me, it's $15 per month for the piece of mind. I get it if you don't need it.

[cellsafemode]

my transponder has been disabled the week i took ownership in feb, 16 and removed not long after that. So i'm not worried about what they're doing or not doing with my data because they're not collecting it.

But the trust that they're not selling your data is hilarious to me. If a company is taking the time to collect data even after you cancel service, then they're definitely monetizing that data or they wouldn't continue to collect it when they're not being paid. So pay them if you want. I consider it a waste, a service that's not needed unless you for some reason dont have a cellphone and since it's not needed it doesn't need to be collecting data.

I'd trust them a lot more if they made it easy to turn it off. But since they're increasingly trying to force it on the car buyer and continue to try and make it harder to disable it without impacting other unrelated features I trust them about as much as I trust that Equifax takes privacy seriously.

[Rustydaytons]

All this rickety crap they put on the car just makes room for more things to break. And makes it harder or nearly impossible for the average shade tree mechanic to fix their car
OnStar
Tire pressure sensor
WiFi
Heated steering wheel

List goes on

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

But the trust that they're not selling your data is hilarious to me. If a company is taking the time to collect data even after you cancel service, then they're definitely monetizing that data or they wouldn't continue to collect it when they're not being paid. So pay them if you want. I consider it a waste, a service that's not needed unless you for some reason dont have a cellphone and since it's not needed it doesn't need to be collecting data.

Again it comes down to, what data do you think they're selling, how personally identifiable do you think you are in that data, and where is the evidence of it being used against individuals in any kind of direct and substantial way?

The only rational, responsible answers based on the available evidence is: we don't know, we don't know, and nowhere to be found. Granted, the first two answers leave potential for troubling abuse, but the last one more than counteracts that potential. OnStar has been around for a while now, so if the whole thing is a dastardly plot to get you to pay for the rope to hang yourself via your own naughty diving habits, what exactly are they waiting for?