[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

I’m starting to think there’s a chance that there’s more to the LT2 power than meets the eye. Maybe it’s under rated at 495, maybe it really is 495 but comes in way early and stays flat. That IM is garganchuon...way bigger than it looked at first. I’m thinking it won’t even fit under a camaro hood. look what a high ram does for those guys. 30hp could come from the new intake and tb alone...easily
Now talk better headers and new cam.

I'm also thinking it would have to be severely underrated. If it will outperform the C7 Z06 at everything then I assume that includes top speed. The C7 Z06 top speed is 205 MPH if I'm not mistaken. So is 495 HP in a 3400 pound ME body good for over 205 MPH? Out of an OHV engine nonetheless? Without forced induction? Maybe I'm taking things too literal and they just meant track stuff. But still, would it be able to accelerate faster than a C7 Z06 which weighs less than 3600 pounds and makes 550+ to the wheels? I gotta say I'm a bit skeptical...unless I just misunderstood what they actually meant.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

You won't until November when the 1st production cars are delivered for the 1st press event.

At 3500 lbs and 495 crank, the car will do 11.7s and 121mph in the 1/4 (slightly worse than the ZL1). And that requires the Z51 package, for which you'll pay ZL1 money (or greater).

And you won't get the 3LT features that come on the ZL1 for ZL1 money. For a C8 Z51 3LT car you'll pay $85k+ or $20k more than the ZL1 for almost performance ... 3 years later.

And don't forget you can get a low miles ZL1 for low $50's today.... probably upper 40s by December.

You dont need a 3LT optioned Vette to compare with the ZL1 features, 2LT will do that. Even if you do I think your guess of $85K is high. It wont MSRP higher than $80K.

No doubt you still cant beat the value of the ZL1, a older front engine platform that performs incredibly well while providing excellent comfort and DD ability at low 50's lightly used. It is still no replacement for a mid-engine Corvette though.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by waterman

Mid engine configuration radically and drastically changes the playing field.

Please adjust your school of thought gentlemen.

This ^^^

[Doc]

A mid-engine configuration changes a lot of things when it comes to performance. Just for the drivetrain alone, reducing drivetrain loss helps a great deal. The improved efficiency means better response and more of the power making it to the wheels.

Weight. The weight-to-power ratio matters; especially if a lot of the weight reduction is in the area of unsprung rotating weight. I'm guessing they paid a lot of attention to what kind of weight they saved and where they saved it.

Then there's aerodynamics. So far we're only reacting to looks; we don't know the CD of the shape or how it handles air moving through it. Most likely a lot of attention was paid to the aerodynamics of the underbody. With a front engine layout, the firewall of the engine compartment presents a tremendous amount of resistance to airflow, which creates drag against forward motion; much more than people realize because it's not visible. With a mid-engine layout, that is radically reduced but again, because it's not visible like the outside shape is, people don't realize what an advantage that can be.

Don't over-estimate the performance of the front engine Vette's, and don't under-estimate the performance advantage of the new mid-engine Vette. Most Americans have probably never driven a mid-engine vehicle in a performance situation; it's a completely different animal.

Oh and BTW... don't think of the C8 in 1/4 mile terms; it's clearly designed for road course performance which includes much more than straight-line acceleration. It's going to be respectable in the 1/4, but I suspect it's going to be spectacular on a road course. I wouldn't be surprised if it's shockingly better.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Ok so talking performance...

In a straight line the C8 Z51 will beat any of the modern Muscle Cars including the Hellcat, GT500, ZL1, ZLE, GT350R, Redeye, and whatever else there is. The standard C8 will either beat or at the very least match all those cars. It's advantage will be that it will get that power thru the rear and to the pavement much more efficiently than the Muscle Cars. Don't get on my case about "Muscle Car"...we all know which cars I'm talking about. Suffice to say...

In the quarter mile, the C8 is going to lose to anything that has a blower on it. While it will 0-60 the hell out of those other cars, they will be picking up steam and momentum something monstrous once past 60. The C8 will be accelerating too but not like the monsters out there. All the advantages of having a better take off will be nullified once those beasts get rolling and building boost. By 70-80 they will have caught the C8, by 90-100 they will be clear of the C8, and by the end of the quarter mile the C8 will have lost convincingly. I figure the C8 will do a mid 11.5 (absolute best) -11.8 and trap about 120-122.

Around a track I doubt anything besides a ZL1 or ZLE will take it. For the record, I do think the standard ZL1 is gonna beat the GT500 around a track. Mainly due to the fact that I think the GT500 will be 4100+ pounds, nose heavy, and won't be carrying enough speed thru the turns. Anyway, I think the match up to watch will be C8 vs ZLE vs Z06 vs ZR1 around a track with the GT500 thrown in to keep it interesting. The top Camaro and the C7 Z brothers will be the only things that might be able to beat it. We'll see.

As far as tires, I would probably hesitate to throw stickier tires on the standard C8. At least not a compound that is used on the Z51. GM builds their cars in a very balanced manner. If the Z51 is outfitted with a higher performance tire, then that is because the entire car was built to handle that tire. Or that tire was made for the Z51. Chances are that throwing that same tire on a non-Z51 might hinder performance or cause an issue. Still tho I'd like to see how the two stack up.

I think everyone would like the Z51 package but I also think the standard C8 non-Z51 is the way to go if you are not planning on taking the car to the track. Remember the C7 Z51s? People complained that of the cr was not optioned with the MRC then it was too harsh. Just like the ZLE is said to be harsh. So while 0-60 under 3 seconds sure does sound nice, your butt might not like that ride at all. Now I may be wrong considering the C8 is ME while the C7 wasn't. Perhaps this new design might be more forgiving. Time will tell. But I think the standard C8 in a LT2 package will be more than enough. I honestly feel that even the standard C8 will corner better than a standard ZL1. And if you don't know, the standard ZL1 handles like nothing I've ever driven before. That C8 is going to hit corners soo fast you won't know what to do with yourself.

Personally, I'd be happy trading in the Hellcat for a LT1 C8 non-Z51.

I think you are overlooking the advantages of DCT and how much more efficiently the C8 is converting that 495hp to the wheels. A 650whp Z06 makes roughly 550whp. It's said the 495hp C8 will likely make 450-460whp due to very low drive train loss and power through the shifts.

Also, the base C7 is 4.0 0-60 with a 12.2 1/4mi. If the C8 z51 can do 0-60 in 2.8 then that will again likely equate to 11.0-11.2 1/4 mi times based on the fact that they both accelerate the same after 60mph. 1 tenth reduction in 0-60 nets a 1 tenth reduction in 1/4 mi ET every day of the week. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes the ZL1 till 130mph to come around from a dig.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

I think you are overlooking the advantages of DCT and how much more efficiently the C8 is converting that 495hp to the wheels. A 650whp Z06 makes roughly 550whp. It's said the 495hp C8 will likely make 450-460whp due to very low drive train loss and power through the shifts.

Also, the base C7 is 4.0 0-60 with a 12.2 1/4mi. If the C8 z51 can do 0-60 in 2.8 then that will again likely equate to 11.0-11.2 1/4 mi times based on the fact that they both accelerate the same after 60mph. 1 tenth reduction in 0-60 nets a 1 tenth reduction in 1/4 mi ET every day of the week. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes the ZL1 till 130mph to come around from a dig.

LT1 makes about 405 hp at the wheels. If Z06 is 550 maybe that includes supercharger losses? I'm not sure, but 50 hp seems about right to turn the supercharger at ~6k rpm.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

LT1 makes about 405 hp at the wheels. If Z06 is 550 maybe that includes supercharger losses? I'm not sure, but 50 hp seems about right to turn the supercharger at ~6k rpm.

Yes sounds about right. Another big difference is how DCT powers through the shifts. The A8/10 in stock form cut throttle and torque on the shifts. That is worth 2-3 tenths alone.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Ok so talking performance...

In a straight line the C8 Z51 will beat any of the modern Muscle Cars including the Hellcat, GT500, ZL1, ZLE, GT350R, Redeye, and whatever else there is. The standard C8 will either beat or at the very least match all those cars. It's advantage will be that it will get that power thru the rear and to the pavement much more efficiently than the Muscle Cars. Don't get on my case about "Muscle Car"...we all know which cars I'm talking about. Suffice to say...

In the quarter mile, the C8 is going to lose to anything that has a blower on it. While it will 0-60 the hell out of those other cars, they will be picking up steam and momentum something monstrous once past 60. The C8 will be accelerating too but not like the monsters out there. All the advantages of having a better take off will be nullified once those beasts get rolling and building boost. By 70-80 they will have caught the C8, by 90-100 they will be clear of the C8, and by the end of the quarter mile the C8 will have lost convincingly. I figure the C8 will do a mid 11.5 (absolute best) -11.8 and trap about 120-122.

Around a track I doubt anything besides a ZL1 or ZLE will take it. For the record, I do think the standard ZL1 is gonna beat the GT500 around a track. Mainly due to the fact that I think the GT500 will be 4100+ pounds, nose heavy, and won't be carrying enough speed thru the turns. Anyway, I think the match up to watch will be C8 vs ZLE vs Z06 vs ZR1 around a track with the GT500 thrown in to keep it interesting. The top Camaro and the C7 Z brothers will be the only things that might be able to beat it. We'll see.

As far as tires, I would probably hesitate to throw stickier tires on the standard C8. At least not a compound that is used on the Z51. GM builds their cars in a very balanced manner. If the Z51 is outfitted with a higher performance tire, then that is because the entire car was built to handle that tire. Or that tire was made for the Z51. Chances are that throwing that same tire on a non-Z51 might hinder performance or cause an issue. Still tho I'd like to see how the two stack up.

I think everyone would like the Z51 package but I also think the standard C8 non-Z51 is the way to go if you are not planning on taking the car to the track. Remember the C7 Z51s? People complained that of the cr was not optioned with the MRC then it was too harsh. Just like the ZLE is said to be harsh. So while 0-60 under 3 seconds sure does sound nice, your butt might not like that ride at all. Now I may be wrong considering the C8 is ME while the C7 wasn't. Perhaps this new design might be more forgiving. Time will tell. But I think the standard C8 in a LT2 package will be more than enough. I honestly feel that even the standard C8 will corner better than a standard ZL1. And if you don't know, the standard ZL1 handles like nothing I've ever driven before. That C8 is going to hit corners soo fast you won't know what to do with yourself.

Personally, I'd be happy trading in the Hellcat for a LT1 C8 non-Z51.

Very balanced and learned

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

I think you are overlooking the advantages of DCT and how much more efficiently the C8 is converting that 495hp to the wheels. A 650whp Z06 makes roughly 550whp. It's said the 495hp C8 will likely make 450-460whp due to very low drive train loss and power through the shifts.

Also, the base C7 is 4.0 0-60 with a 12.2 1/4mi. If the C8 z51 can do 0-60 in 2.8 then that will again likely equate to 11.0-11.2 1/4 mi times based on the fact that they both accelerate the same after 60mph. 1 tenth reduction in 0-60 nets a 1 tenth reduction in 1/4 mi ET every day of the week. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes the ZL1 till 130mph to come around from a dig.

I wouldn't say I'm overlooking it. I think however that some are overestimating it's virtues. The way I see it, you can't say that it will do an 11 flat based off your estimations because HP and performance is not exactly linear. That 0-60, stellar tho it may be, is due to the car being able to get the power to the ground very efficiently. However once the advantages of the take-off are neutralized, it is a 495 HP car that weighs 3500 pounds. Meaning, it is not going to beat a Z06, Hellcat, ZL1, or a GT500 in a roll race. Or in a quarter mile. And it won't have a higher top speed than those cars. Well it might be close to the GT500 considering the 180 MPH limiter. Although top speed has to do with gearing, you still need power to get there. And I don't think it will have enough to get hit 200+ MPH. I also don't think it will hit low 11s or 11 flat.

Now I will be very surprised and impressed if it does do all those things. And I'd be much more willing to let the Hellcat go if it can beat the Hellcat in the quarter mile and top speed. But Hellcats make 650-680 HP to the wheels bone stock depending on trans. So I'm thinking that beating one might be too tall of an order for a C8 unless it is a Z06 or ZR1. If it does beat the Hellcat in the quarter mile then that will be due to the Hellcat coming with the shittiest tires that Dodge could get at a bargain price to throw on them. But it'll be close. I predict the following:

Hellcat - high 10s to high 11s depending on options (wide body, tire selection, Redeye).

C8 standard - High 11s

C8 Z51 - Mid 11s...maybe a low 11, like 11.4. Maybe.

ZL1 - Low 11s as we have seen.

C7 Z06 - Low 11s as we have seen.

GT500 Base - Low 11s depending on traction but definitely faster than the ZL1.

GT500 CF - High 10s to 11 flat.

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

I think you are overlooking the advantages of DCT and how much more efficiently the C8 is converting that 495hp to the wheels. A 650whp Z06 makes roughly 550whp. It's said the 495hp C8 will likely make 450-460whp due to very low drive train loss and power through the shifts.

Also, the base C7 is 4.0 0-60 with a 12.2 1/4mi. If the C8 z51 can do 0-60 in 2.8 then that will again likely equate to 11.0-11.2 1/4 mi times based on the fact that they both accelerate the same after 60mph. 1 tenth reduction in 0-60 nets a 1 tenth reduction in 1/4 mi ET every day of the week. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes the ZL1 till 130mph to come around from a dig.

A base C7 0-60's 3.6 and does 12.0 1/4 mile with a 8 speed auto trans Z51. If the Z51 C8 will do a 2.9 0-60, I would think a mid 11.5 to 11.4 would be a well executed 1/4 mile time for a C8 Z51 car. Trap speeds mean nothing to me, because a real efficient pass down the 1/4 mile (quick et) equates to a lower trap speed. Look at what Dodge does with the 1320 car, a great 11.8 1//4 mile with only a 115 mph trap. The car has a great 60ft time and doesnt spin at all during super quick shifts. Car is super quick, not fast.

I believe the C8 495 horse car will dyno 420-430 rwhp. Cannot imagine the C8 drive train will be that much more efficient than the C7 transaxle set up

[Baldilocks01SS]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

A base C7 0-60's 3.6 and does 12.0 1/4 mile with a 8 speed auto trans Z51. If the Z51 C8 will do a 2.9 0-60, I would think a mid 11.5 to 11.4 would be a well executed 1/4 mile time for a C8 Z51 car. Trap speeds mean nothing to me, because a real efficient pass down the 1/4 mile (quick et) equates to a lower trap speed. Look at what Dodge does with the 1320 car, a great 11.8 1//4 mile with only a 115 mph trap. The car has a great 60ft time and doesnt spin at all during super quick shifts. Car is super quick, not fast.

I believe the C8 495 horse car will dyno 420-430 rwhp. Cannot imagine the C8 drive train will be that much more efficient than the C7 transaxle set up

The DCT makes a world of difference.

[KingLT1]

Google all the cars out there with a sub 3 second 0-60 and report back there 1/4 mile times. They all gonna be low 11 to 10 second cars.

https://www.zeroto60times.com/2-seco...-60-mph-times/

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

A base C7 0-60's 3.6 and does 12.0 1/4 mile with a 8 speed auto trans Z51. If the Z51 C8 will do a 2.9 0-60, I would think a mid 11.5 to 11.4 would be a well executed 1/4 mile time for a C8 Z51 car. Trap speeds mean nothing to me, because a real efficient pass down the 1/4 mile (quick et) equates to a lower trap speed. Look at what Dodge does with the 1320 car, a great 11.8 1//4 mile with only a 115 mph trap. The car has a great 60ft time and doesnt spin at all during super quick shifts. Car is super quick, not fast.

I believe the C8 495 horse car will dyno 420-430 rwhp. Cannot imagine the C8 drive train will be that much more efficient than the C7 transaxle set up

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mot...me-379767/amp/

3.8 0-60, 12.0 1/4 @ 119 for C7 Z51, so If the C8 Z51 does 0-60 in 2.8 then it's going to cover the 1/4mi in 11.0-11.2 like I said previously.

[Frank237]

I am SO looking forward to C&D, R&T, Motor Trend, etc...Finally getting a car to TEST! We need some information. Four or five C8's were spotted on a car carrier westbound from Denver yesterday. Hopefully headed to Journalists but also possibly the Driving school in Parump?

I'm not as wound around the axle on the EXACT 0-60 or even 1/4 mile times as many others. I'm more interested in a balanced and reliable GT car. Something I can drive for a thousand miles on a weekend or three days off and not get beat to detah or have a breakdown.

I am torn on not only EXACTLY what to order , as well as losing my hitherto perfect 17 1SS. I'd hate to give up my reliable Camaro and get a bundle of issues in a new C8.

BlaqWhole hit on a bunch of valid points. Especially the "balanced package" issue regarding tires and the suspension options. I'm torn on ordering the Z51 package, especially if it goes up from what it has traditionally cost these past few years. I would like to add the MRC system as that would take care of a harsh suspension but what does that now add to the cost? And is that going to be reliable or another source of issues?

The super sticky Z51 option, summer only tires. Whats their life? No doubt cost to replace a set will be $1600 or more. I'm not a 1500 mile a year owner. A ride to town to get a loaf of bread is a 90+ mile round trip. I can put 10K per year on a summer use only rig pretty quickly. Glacier Park is 200 miles one way and we hit GNP about every 10-14 days when it's open.

I'm thinking a base car, 2LT, NPP exhaust and forget the Z-51 package. Standard rims, NO extra carbon fiber or other trim BS either. I'll opt for the painted brake calipers and that may be it.

I have until Oct/Nov to make a decision, when my Dealer would like a FIRM order commitment. The point of all this may be moot ,should the soon to be released official price list (8/15) turn out to be markedly higher than the C7 prices. I fear the GM beancounters may raise option prices SUBSTANTIALLY considering the extreme interest in the car and the insane amount of orders already placed.