[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior85

Before, I took you comments to strictly be that
1. The Camaro should not perform so similarly to a vette
2. The best camaro shouldnt perform better than the "worst" vette
3. The 5th gen Z28 was the peak level or performance that any manufacturer should try to achieve in a 2 +2 coupe.

Now you appear to be arguing that Camaros are overpriced relative to historical norms or trends,

This is an argument that I can 100000% agree with you on, however this is not Camaro thing. This issue applies across the board on almost every product we buy,

In what world should any 1500 Chevy/GMC Pickup cost more than a base model corvette? They did for 2020. Even being fully optioned out, its the basic half ton, everyday pickup. It isn't a 1 ton or a dually.

Its much like the wage debate. If you go back to 1969 and look at the gap between CEO pay and average employee pay and then follow it back to today, the employee pay has not grown very well at all, and the CEO pay has grown exponentially greater,
Soooooo many products we buy today grew in price in similar manners (had to make the extra profit somewhere to give to those CEOs).

It is amazing that we can get the supercar level of performance that we did, but the average new vehicle should not be equal in price to median US income

My point is kind of a mix of both.

Why have the Corvette positioned at $60k if you're going to have better performance from a more expensive, yet lower end car?

Maybe that means the Corvette should START at an MSRP of no less than $100k for the base trim before a single option. They're trying to go after the Ferrari/Lamborghini clientele now right? Otherwise they wouldn't make it mid-engine with only a DCT and styling that looks like Pinninfarinia himself swam over the ocean from Italy to Detroit. They've no doubt alienated the Corvette purists at that point. At 100k to start the Corvette would STILL be a stellar bargain compared to those cars, yet keep the hierarchy of price/performance tiers to the Camaro ZL1 which would be the next step below.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by shaffe

What he said ^

3LT interior is quite a bit nicer than the 1LT

I have done research before and 2LT is the best value in terms of interior for a C7 and C8. 1LT lacks a lot of technological features like memory seats, easy exit(even if you have good joints, it helps due to how long the doors are on those cars), heated/ventilated seats, HUD, etc while 3LT is just... Nicer leather compared to 2LT.

And C7 and C8 also showcases the point that, no, you can't have a nicer interior for a mere grand as Number 3 was saying. 1LT to 2LT costs a couple of hundred bucks and considering that you are getting quite a lot of nice electronic stuff, it's pretty good. 2LT to 3LT costs about 2 to 3 grands and all you get is some nicer leather. Doesn't sound like a bargain to me but to each of their own. Regardless, it shows that, yes, nicer interior will set you back more than some tech gizmos.

[NeverDie]

The 3LT also gets the GT2 seats as standard, which are a $1495 standalone option on the 2LT. That makes the price gap only $3155 as a more accurate comparison.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

My point is kind of a mix of both.

Why have the Corvette positioned at $60k if you're going to have better performance from a more expensive, yet lower end car?

Because the Corvette has always been the attainable sports car. The base model should always stay that way. Not everyone wants a $60k Camaro, regardless of performance.

Those better performing Camaros are such a small market. GM doesn't care that there is a Camaro that performs better right now because they know what they have coming with Corvette.

Maybe that means the Corvette should START at an MSRP of no less than $100k for the base trim before a single option. They're trying to go after the Ferrari/Lamborghini clientele now right? Otherwise they wouldn't make it mid-engine with only a DCT and styling that looks like Pinninfarinia himself swam over the ocean from Italy to Detroit. They've no doubt alienated the Corvette purists at that point. At 100k to start the Corvette would STILL be a stellar bargain compared to those cars, yet keep the hierarchy of price/performance tiers to the Camaro ZL1 which would be the next step below.

It absolutely should not start at $100k. That would kill the car after the new wears off it.

They're not "going after" Ferrari and Lamborghini. You're talking about 2 companies that sell maybe 5k-8k units per year in the US. They absolutely don't want that.

The goal has never been to go after those 2. The goal is to continue offering near supercar levels of performance and handling at an attainable price. They were at the end of what they could do with front engine/rear drive. Mid engine was the only way they were going to advance the performance of the Corvette.

With the demand that the C8 has, they're not worried about Corvette purists. It sure hasn't hurt the sales, has it?

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

With the demand that the C8 has, they're not worried about Corvette purists. It sure hasn't hurt the sales, has it?

Like you said, it's still new. Wait till everyone who wants the "new" thing get one.

How many of them were rushing to trade their C7 or older in for it? I bet it's a lot less than GM would like.

I've loved Corvettes since I was about 5 years old but now I have zero interest. I'll buy used but never new again. And this isn't coming from a bald baby boomer. I'm 43.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Like you said, it's still new. Wait till everyone who wants the "new" thing get one.

How many of them were rushing to trade their C7 or older in for it? I bet it's a lot less than GM would like.

I've loved Corvettes since I was about 5 years old but now I have zero interest. I'll buy used but never new again. And this isn't coming from a bald baby boomer. I'm 43.

You know which model of Corvette sells best when the new wears off? It's the base model. For C7, toward the end of production, the base 1LT was the best selling model.

Like I said, a $100k base price C8 would essentially be the death toll for the entire nameplate because once the new wears off, no one will be buying it.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

They're not "going after" Ferrari and Lamborghini. You're talking about 2 companies that sell maybe 5k-8k units per year in the US. They absolutely don't want that.

Actually, there's a quote somewhere from Tadge Juechter where he insinuated they were going after those marques specifically.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Actually, there's a quote somewhere from Tadge Juechter where he insinuated they were going after those marques specifically.

Maybe they want to continue to compete with them performance wise and to do that, they had to go mid engine, but they absolutely are not trying to be Ferrari or Lamborghini with this car.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by NeverDie

The 3LT also gets the GT2 seats as standard, which are a $1495 standalone option on the 2LT. That makes the price gap only $3155 as a more accurate comparison.

I didn't know that, thanks for the correction. I still have C7 on the mind where GT2 seats are rare because they don't come standard with any trim, at least with the Stingrays.

But otherwise, it's still US$1700 for nicer leather. I can see if someone wants that as an option on the Camaro($1500 Nappa leather package or something), but personally, I won't be spending money on that. If I were to option a C8, 2LT + GT2 seats is what I would go for.

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Actually, there's a quote somewhere from Tadge Juechter where he insinuated they were going after those marques specifically.

Performance, maybe, but you won't be touching a true exotic with a Corvette in terms of brand image and feels that can't be put into words. There are supercar rentals you can check out if you really want to know how it feels.

Having driven a 488 before and owned a C7 briefly, you can tell clearly that one is an expensive and extremely exclusive machine, and one is an everyman's supercar. The Ferrari actually will take you a while to get used to because some of the controls are really weird(turn signals are buttons on the steering wheel, and time yourself how long it takes for you to figure out how to select the gears). So no, you can't charge $100k+ for a base Vette. That kills its purpose.

And interestingly, as someone mentioned in the C8 vs. ZL1 thread, some people actually prefer the muscle look. Some of my friends pinned my C7 as "trying a bit too hard to look like a supercar" while Camaro has its own distinctive image, and they just think the Camaro looks more aggressive and badass.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

But otherwise, it's still US$1700 for nicer leather. I can see if someone wants that as an option on the Camaro($1500 Nappa leather package or something), but personally, I won't be spending money on that. If I were to option a C8, 2LT + GT2 seats is what I would go for.

2LT is the perfect package on C8 really. 3LT is more than nicer leather though.

First, some folks might prefer Mulan to Napa leather because it has more texture to it. Napa is softer and smoother than Mulan.

$3,100(if you order 2LT with GT2 seats) gets you better leather(better because Napa is a higher grade leather than Mulan), leather wrapped instrument panel, console and door panels. Also included is the sueded microfiber wrapped upper interior trim. That includes the design stitched headliner(on coupe) as well. You also have 3LT exclusive interior colors that are available.

When talking about a $70k plus car, $3k really isn't a lot for what you're getting. For anyone getting GT2 seats, I always recommend stepping up to 3LT because it will help with resale.

[genxer]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

i own a 2015 RS(2LT).to be honest its probably the most luxurious car ive ever had.do you guys really want a camaro with genuine walnut burl dashboard and seats that massage your butt while you drive?

I love bare bones Camaros. But, the thread went towards helping out the ZL1, with some usual ney-saying. I think one even said an LT5 hood would look dumb!

I don't know why it turned into a freakin' C8 ad.

Some people seem to hate the idea of base trims of their lux/exotic envy car existing. It seems it's come to - the sooner they split away Corvette to it's own brand, the better.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by genxer

Some people seem to hate the idea of base trims of their lux/exotic envy car existing.

I keep getting the same impression.

Then again, maybe it really is that hard for some people to understand why anybody would choose "less" when "more" is always supposed to be better . . .


Norm

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I keep getting the same impression.

Then again, maybe it really is that hard for some people to understand why anybody would choose "less" when "more" is always supposed to be better . . .


Norm

The Camaro has a price range that can triple the car's price. Some would say that is insane.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

The Camaro has a price range that can triple the car's price. Some would say that is insane.

Got that right