[paradigm]

Originally Posted by jamala00

Not to get too far off base, but those AI programs like chatgpt are going to put the nail in the coffin of any hope for our future. Smartphones and social media in general have already dumbed down our society to a scary point. Now you have some AI that will write articles, papers for school kids… It won’t be good.

I’ve accepted that the Camaro is coming to an end. It is what it is. All things change eventually if you live long enough. The good thing is I can hang onto my Camaro as long as I need. It’s not a DD and I’ll never put enough miles on it to kill it before I’m underground.

Agreed on all points. It is extremely scary to see how stupid people truely are with social media, and now with AI creating so many baseless websites, articles, videos that people actually believe, its going to reach a new level of retardation.

[FlukeSS]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/othe...ee8fa678&ei=27

Show me a C8 for under $60,000. About the only thing that article said that was true, was the bad electronics. The touch screen has been an issue since the 5th gen and still is. I call that article click bait and BS.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Absolute bullshit "article", it may even have been written by chatgpt. "Abrupt engine problems"? "Bad mileage"? WTH is this, some fifth grader's first foray into writing essays?

The sort of clickbaity nonsense this article is a "fine" specimen of will turn people even more away from reading... as if literacy, or lack thereof, weren't already a huge issue :(

While most of that is BS, they're not wrong about the styling. The biggest complaint when the 6th gen came out was that the styling wasn't different enough from the 5th gen. Your average buyer didn't even know it was a different car. I do think that was a mistake by GM. They needed to make the 6th gen stand out from the 5th gen to the average buyer. The interior was also a point of contention. So, they're kind of right in that part of the article.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Vtor_ZL1

GR86 is nice little car, but it's no Camaro. It's great second car to a Camaro though You have to go out of your way to make a 86 do stupid stuff.. the Camaro can do stupid stuff every single time you mash the gas.


The 86 is full of stupid quirks. Power mirrors that dont tilt down in reverse, door that dont lock when you reach certain speed, turn signals dont latch on - return to center!, phone storage ie cupholder is behind your elbow, fake engine noise is absolute crap, engine sounds feels and sounds rough, it tends to run HOT, stock camber is extremely limited by design but tons of aftermarket and disturbingly... soo much ricey crap - about biggest downside of that car is taking car can handle brilliantly and VIP slamming them.

As much of a headache as failing oil pumpSSSS have been, the LT4 is dream of an engine for smoothness and power delivery... i want more of it.. blackwing?

I much prefer the Miata for its smoother engine, especially at higher RPM and the only manual transmission that may shift as good if not better than the Tremec. Also, the top goes down for more excitement.

Both of the Blackwings are awesome, the 4BW is the scalpel and the 5BW is the sledgehammer.

The 4BW is basically a 4 door Camaro with a lot of the performance goodies from the 1LE package (mag-ride, E-diff, 6 piston Brembos, dual mode exhaust) and can be had with the Tremec M6 or A10 auto. The LF4 twin turbo V6 really does feel like a naturally aspirated motor, it pulls hard everywhere. (472hp, 445tq). I have been driving it for about 8 months now and it is very nice. I find it a much more livable version of the Camaro (visibility, trunk opening, two more doors when needed) but it is pricey once you start adding some options.

The 5BW is your 4 door ZL1, nicer interior, updated electronics gauges, etc. but be prepared to pay $100k+ for one. Awesome but too expensive IMO.

[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

While most of that is BS, they're not wrong about the styling. The biggest complaint when the 6th gen came out was that the styling wasn't different enough from the 5th gen. Your average buyer didn't even know it was a different car. I do think that was a mistake by GM. They needed to make the 6th gen stand out from the 5th gen to the average buyer. The interior was also a point of contention. So, they're kind of right in that part of the article.

I couldn't disagree more about the styling. I wasn't in the market and wasn't really paying much attention back then and the styling of the 6th Gen immediately stood out to me compared to the 5th.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Alan47717

I couldn't disagree more about the styling. I wasn't in the market and wasn't really paying much attention back then and the styling of the 6th Gen immediately stood out to me compared to the 5th.

I prefer the exterior styling of the 6th gen over my 5th gen but living with the low roof line got old after a while. I got used to it of course like we all do but when I switched cars I forgot how much better the driving position and visibility were, which really improved the driving experience for me.

[GXP08jrf]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

While most of that is BS, they're not wrong about the styling. The biggest complaint when the 6th gen came out was that the styling wasn't different enough from the 5th gen. Your average buyer didn't even know it was a different car. I do think that was a mistake by GM. They needed to make the 6th gen stand out from the 5th gen to the average buyer. The interior was also a point of contention. So, they're kind of right in that part of the article.

I could agree with this too, if the Mustang or Challenger had any appreciable styling changes in the past 15 years or so. To the average buyer (me) I recognize the subtle (and more obvious) changes, but overall the general shape, profile and proportions are the same when comparing each vehicle year over year. Particularly true for the Challenger which looks the same across all years to me since '08. But this has done nothing to dampen its sales.

And the talking point about GM interiors is becomming cliche, to the extent of simply bandwagoning without an objective assessment. I haven't sat in a Mustang to have an honest opinion, but generally I'm not WOWed by Ford interiors. The Challenger cockpit doesn't seem to be anything to really brag about either, at least not in the more pedestrian forms that I've been in which whould be comprable to my Gen6 leather trim (non-Recaro). It's acceptable, for sure, but not in a "gotta have it" way.

Relative to the article source: I got almost all the way through it before I realized it was from "HotCars" which generally is equivalent to Hot Garbage. I stopped reading their stuff long ago due to their generally mis-leading and ill-informed content that appears to be regurgitated and paraphrased from other sources. Zero journalistic integrity with their stuff.

[Red Chief]

Pickup trucks killed the muscle car in general. I don't know why so many guys are all about pickups--I completely don't get it.

As far as Dodge goes, ya they sold more but they also had a monstous advertising campaign. No wonder they barely updated the Challenger...all the R&D cash went to advertising. Good for them I guess but I will never trust Dodge to build a reliable car.

[plus1zero]

Originally Posted by Rock-It Man

Among the 3 American Muscle cars, Camaro is without a doubt the best engineered of the bunch. But apparently what sold better was the vacuous "brotherhood of muscle" campaign for the Dodge land barge with the cast iron block, and the cuteness of Mustangs for people who don't know what good handling feels like (not to mention the oil guzzling engine with the sprayed-on cylinder lining).

In the future, the Gen 5 and Gen 6 Camaro will rule over Ford and Dodge in the collector car market.

Well that and the fact that you can get a dodge with a 400 credit score and 120 months at 35% interest

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

Pickup trucks killed the muscle car in general. I don't know why so many guys are all about pickups--I completely don't get it.

As far as Dodge goes, ya they sold more but they also had a monstous advertising campaign. No wonder they barely updated the Challenger...all the R&D cash went to advertising. Good for them I guess but I will never trust Dodge to build a reliable car.

In my experience, for camping gear, mt bikes Home Depot runs etc. I took a gamble on an old cheap truck a few years ago and it paid off. Also, left room in the budget for the fun car.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

Pickup trucks killed the muscle car in general. I don't know why so many guys are all about pickups--I completely don't get it.

As far as Dodge goes, ya they sold more but they also had a monstous advertising campaign. No wonder they barely updated the Challenger...all the R&D cash went to advertising. Good for them I guess but I will never trust Dodge to build a reliable car.

Well, I need my truck. As a homeowner, I find myself needing a truck almost daily. When I was a renter, not so much.

Thankfully I can have a truck and a fun car but a lot of folks don't have that luxury.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by GXP08jrf

I could agree with this too, if the Mustang or Challenger had any appreciable styling changes in the past 15 years or so. To the average buyer (me) I recognize the subtle (and more obvious) changes, but overall the general shape, profile and proportions are the same when comparing each vehicle year over year. Particularly true for the Challenger which looks the same across all years to me since '08. But this has done nothing to dampen its sales.

And the talking point about GM interiors is becomming cliche, to the extent of simply bandwagoning without an objective assessment. I haven't sat in a Mustang to have an honest opinion, but generally I'm not WOWed by Ford interiors. The Challenger cockpit doesn't seem to be anything to really brag about either, at least not in the more pedestrian forms that I've been in which whould be comprable to my Gen6 leather trim (non-Recaro). It's acceptable, for sure, but not in a "gotta have it" way.

Relative to the article source: I got almost all the way through it before I realized it was from "HotCars" which generally is equivalent to Hot Garbage. I stopped reading their stuff long ago due to their generally mis-leading and ill-informed content that appears to be regurgitated and paraphrased from other sources. Zero journalistic integrity with their stuff.

You don't have to agree with it because those were actual complaints voiced on this very forum back when the 6th gen was introduced. I remember it very well. There was definitely backlash here(Camaro5) because the exterior styling wasn't different enough and because the interior looked cheap and boring. Some of those folks eventually warmed up to it but not everyone liked it at first.

As for Dodge. Well, they have the best marketing team on the planet and they use it to sell those cars, along with great incentives. Something GM hasn't cared about at all when it comes to the 6th gen. They didn't even try to advertise the Camaro to help sales.

[PeteSS2018]

Rarely in the history of any car maker did they ever drop a vehicle/marque that was profitable, especially if predicted to remain that way.

Truth is that if GM saw Camaro as profitable going forward then they'd keep making them.

When Camaro only ever accounted for 20% of muscle car sales (2020) profitability was a challenge. When their market share fell by half again to less than 10%, then it looked like a death spiral. And it was.

Could GM have supported Camaro to boost sales and make it work? You'd reckon so. Did they try hard enough? Doesn't appear so. Is it part of a longer term business strategy that may or may not work. No doubt.

Best of luck GM. And I wont ever be selling my gen 6.

[Evansa22]

Originally Posted by Alan47717

I couldn't disagree more about the styling. I wasn't in the market and wasn't really paying much attention back then and the styling of the 6th Gen immediately stood out to me compared to the 5th.

I bought a 5th gen late 2014 after seeing many pictures of the 6th Gen when they were released. Maybe a year later I was filling up the work truck at a shell and this woman pulled up in a new ss. As soon as I realized what it was I said to myself I f'd up haha