[13vertss]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Says he can feel how rigid the body structure is. Less flex, less vibration. It's easy to see he enjoys the chassis, but dislikes the suspension.

That was in comparison to the previous Mustang that he said those things. Now watch the other videos with the Alpha and see the difference in praise.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

A classic example of needlessly rhetoric about power when clearly what you are quoting was talking about chassis and suspension. Good job.

The chassis on the Camaro is much better. The tires on the Camaro are better. And the suspension on the Camaro is much better. The Camaro is all around a better built car and is better suited for performance. Even the "truck" engine. The gearing of the car and the engine with it's pros and cons all together make an awesome car. The Mustang, on the other hand, is a high revving engine with a good trans on shitty tires with weak suspension components all tied to a chassis that is not as firm as the Camaro. And for the same price as a Camaro. It has come along ok at best since 2015. But that just shows how far ahead the Camaro is. The PP2 will close the gap a little more or so they had better hope to high Heaven. But they are a far way from matching the Camaro at this point.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

As for reviews...I think everything needs to be looked at with perspective. The performance bar is set really high right now. Just 4 short years ago, they would be praising the PP1GT as all mighty...but that's not the case. I'm sure the PP1 handles quite well (for most)...but is obviously lacking compared to the 1LE. My guess is, this is exactly why ford is offering the PP2, as the PP1 is far more of a GT than a track ready vehicle.

If the GT performance package 1 is “more of a GT”, what is the GT?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by hotlap

If the GT performance package 1 is “more of a GT”, what is the GT?

A POS, lol!! Just kidding.

The sad part is that there are all these packages on the GT which gives an excuse every time it loses a comparison. GT, GT Premium, GTPP1 with or without Premium, GTPP2 (is the Premium available with this too?), Tremor package (is that PP1?), option group 301, option group 301a, Bullitt. So who's to say which one is more of a GT or which one directly compares to the SS or SS1LE or what? By the time you configure one your head will be spinning faster than that Coyote engine.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

A POS, lol!! Just kidding.

The sad part is that there are all these packages on the GT which gives an excuse every time it loses a comparison. GT, GT Premium, GTPP1 with or without Premium, GTPP2 (is the Premium available with this too?), Tremor package (is that PP1?), option group 301, option group 301a, Bullitt. So who's to say which one is more of a GT or which one directly compares to the SS or SS1LE or what? By the time you configure one your head will be spinning faster than that Coyote engine.

LOL!

So true

The ford excuse package. Pick your poison lmao

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

The ford excuse package.

[Syphon23]

"The real world is full of surprises!" Like random dry lake beads in the middle of the highway!

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Classic example of trying to downplay the SS by saying it's all in the suspension and tires. If that was the case, why did Ford just spend a shit load of money on the GT, push the engine to 460 hp, co-develop an A10 trans, raise the MSRP...when they could have just gave it some good tires? Granted, the Camaro did get a really really good tire. But attributing all of it's success to the tires and suspension is a sore loser's excuse. And you can't keep using that excuse forever. Plus, why would some alleged team of Ford enthusiasts have to spend countless nights after hours off the clock developing the PeePee2 if all they had to do was take the damn PeePee1 and get a contract for a better tire with one of the top tire companies? Stupidest excuse I ever heard.

So if the H2H with the PP2 beats the 1LE which I don't think it will but just in case, will you state here and now that you will not blame the tire advantage that the GT has as to why the 1LE lost? Just checking. Presently the 1LE has a huge tire advantage over the PP1, so you can't have it both ways.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

So if the H2H with the PP2 beats the 1LE which I don't think it will but just in case, will you state here and now that you will not blame the tire advantage that the GT has as to why the 1LE lost? Just checking.

I'm not like the Mustang crowd. I give credit where it is due. I have many times on here stated that the 11-14 GT was faster than the 11-14 SS and I never credited anything other than the car itself. Or did you miss all of that? A tire doesn't make a car. GM put a lot of work into the SS and then gave it a tire to compliment the entire setup. Ford failed with the GT. Then they failed with the PP1. And now they're gonna try again with the PP2. If the PP2 does come out on top (quite possible), it will be because Ford put a lot of time and effort into building a worthy opponent. And I am not a sore-ass loser that I won't admit it if it happens. Giving all the credit to the tire takes away from the awesome machines we are seeing on the streets these days. And these manufacturers wouldn't be spending tons of money in R&D and paying staff if it was just a matter of putting a tire on the car.

For the record, the Camaro can't and won't stay on top forever. At some point the Mustang will pull ahead. When it does I will give them their props like I always have and like they would deserve.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by newmoon

So if the H2H with the PP2 beats the 1LE which I don't think it will but just in case, will you state here and now that you will not blame the tire advantage that the GT has as to why the 1LE lost? Just checking. Presently the 1LE has a huge tire advantage over the PP1, so you can't have it both ways.

Not gonna happen. I don't even think the Bullitt will run with the 1LE so. Ford better keep trying. One day they'll come out with a better overall performer than the Camaro. One day.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I'm not like the Mustang crowd. I give credit where it is due. I have many times on here stated that the 11-14 GT was faster than the 11-14 SS and I never credited anything other than the car itself. Or did you miss all of that? A tire doesn't make a car. GM put a lot of work into the SS and then gave it a tire to compliment the entire setup. Ford failed with the GT. Then they failed with the PP1. And now they're gonna try again with the PP2. If the PP2 does come out on top (quite possible), it will be because Ford put a lot of time and effort into building a worthy opponent. And I am not a sore-ass loser that I won't admit it if it happens. Giving all the credit to the tire takes away from the awesome machines we are seeing on the streets these days. And these manufacturers wouldn't be spending tons of money in R&D and paying staff if it was just a matter of putting a tire on the car.

For the record, the Camaro can't and won't stay on top forever. At some point the Mustang will pull ahead. When it does I will give them their props like I always have and like they would deserve.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Not gonna happen. I don't even think the Bullitt will run with the 1LE so. Ford better keep trying. One day they'll come out with a better overall performer than the Camaro. One day.

I gotta say, looking at how badly the PP1 got beat, Ford has their work cut out for them.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Ford failed with the GT. Then they failed with the PP1. And now they're gonna try again with the PP2.

This is where you're completely wrong. Ford knew what the 1LE ran. They chose to not compete with it on the PP1. They didn't fail, they are targeting a different audience. In other-words, they didn't care about beating the 1LE. That obviously pissed off some engineers, hence the reason they went ahead with the PP2.

As for tires overall, Ford is playing the game differently. Tires are expensive, and Ford knows a majority don't care about having expensive summer tires on their base GT package. Sure, it sucks for those that want a wider/better tire...but for those that truly care there is always the PP1.

These aren't failures, these are marketing decisions. As it stands, Ford offers (in V8 form) the GT, PP1, PP2, GT350, GT350R. They will soon offer the Bullitt as well as the GT500. That's a hell of a lineup if you ask me.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

This is where you're completely wrong. Ford knew what the 1LE ran. They chose to not compete with it on the PP1. They didn't fail, they are targeting a different audience. In other-words, they didn't care about beating the 1LE. That obviously pissed off some engineers, hence the reason they went ahead with the PP2.

As for tires overall, Ford is playing the game differently. Tires are expensive, and Ford knows a majority don't care about having expensive summer tires on their base GT package. Sure, it sucks for those that want a wider/better tire...but for those that truly care there is always the PP1.

These aren't failures, these are marketing decisions. As it stands, Ford offers (in V8 form) the GT, PP1, PP2, GT350, GT350R. They will soon offer the Bullitt as well as the GT500. That's a hell of a lineup if you ask me.

I didn’t know you worked for Ford. You know you can get fired for giving out company info.