[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by newmoon

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Exactly and this proves out in the 5th Gen ZL1 forum. The car was marketed just like the 6th Gen as a track warrior yet virtually nobody actually tracks their cars on the forum, they instead like to quote Ring times. The focus in the forum is on street and strip and modifying their cars to be faster in these forums. The same will be the case with the 6th Gen. So please tell me where Dodge has got it wrong focusing on street and strip performance . Now I do give Chevy credit the SS and ZL1 are quick on the street and strip, the problem is they haven't proven to be faster than the 3 yro Hellcat, and are now one upped by the Demon, and soon will be by the 500, not a good roll out.

The real question is, what has it done to help either one chasing track times or strip times. The answer...not really a whole lot. These cars are built for probably 5% of the buyers of that particular model. Chasing one or the other is about PR and bragging rights. Both are really intangible metrics.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

The real question is, what has it done to help either one chasing track times or strip times. The answer...not really a whole lot. These cars are built for probably 5% of the buyers of that particular model. Chasing one or the other is about PR and bragging rights. Both are really intangible metrics.

Pretty much.

There's nowhere in the US where people can take these cars to even 1/2 of their maximum speed (legally) on public roads/highways/interstates. There's even fewer still tracks where there are straights long enough to enable a high speed run out (maybe the back straight at Sebring).

The Nurburgring is a good metric for overall handling, speed and braking, but in real world terms it's utterly worthless.

There's a very good reason why Dodge markets their 1/4 mile times..they know their customer. Chevy is trying to make the Camaro into a BMW killer and focus on handling, which is great..but the primary race track where the Camaro will be found is going to be their local drag strip. Is there anything wrong with that? Not at all.

[TimmyTurner]

I just looked at the dodge website....haha..I thought they were releasing MAJOR news in 6 days...I just noticed they are releasing a tidbit in 6 days. Then another tidbit....get on with it dodge. While you play games and iron out your problems on your demoncrap, Chevrolet is perfecting the way cars are driven. Deal with it

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Pretty much.

There's nowhere in the US where people can take these cars to even 1/2 of their maximum speed (legally) on public roads/highways/interstates. There's even fewer still tracks where there are straights long enough to enable a high speed run out (maybe the back straight at Sebring).

The Nurburgring is a good metric for overall handling, speed and braking, but in real world terms it's utterly worthless.

And a 10 second 1/4 car is useful in the "real world"?

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

There's a very good reason why Dodge markets their 1/4 mile times..they know their customer. Chevy is trying to make the Camaro into a BMW killer and focus on handling, which is great..but the primary race track where the Camaro will be found is going to be their local drag strip. Is there anything wrong with that? Not at all.

How is knowing their customer working out for FCA?

10 Reasons Fiat Chrysler Automobiles is in Big Trouble

1. GM Doesn’t Want to Merge
Recently, FCA CEO Sergio Marchionne made it known that he’s interested in the idea of a merger with General Motors. The other giant American automaker isn’t interested, however, despite FCA’s eagerness to find a partner. GM executives won’t even entertain the idea, even though Marchionne says the merger would be too good to ignore.

2. FCA is Lagging Behind Competitors
Looking at the big picture, FCA is behind its main competitors in numerous categories including profit margin, R&D spending, fuel economy, hybrid technology, autonomous driving and more. But according to Marchionne, the automaker isn’t desperate at all and he believes the company can survive on its own “in mediocrity.” Naturally, Marchionne prefers not to have FCA operating in mediocrity and would like a partner that would benefit from a mutual relationship.

3. Most of FCA’s Models are Outsold by the Competition
The only glowing part of FCA’s portfolio currently is the Jeep Wrangler, Cherokee and Grand Cherokee. Those three models are the only ones out of 23 offerings from FCA US that aren’t outsold by a segment competitor.

4. Margins are Still Down
And despite taking dramatic steps to increase profit margin in North America, FCA’s margins still remain well behind its competitors even though it has increased wholesale prices in the U.S.

5. Platforms are Old
Perhaps one of the main reasons why FCA is struggling with sales is that many of the company’s top-selling vehicles are still built on platforms that would widely be considered antiquated by other automakers. For example, the current Dodge Charger, Challenger and Chrysler 300 are all based on a Mercedes-Benz platform that was first used in the 2005 model year. In an age where automakers are moving onto lighter weight, more versatile platforms, FCA lags behind its competition with new technology.

6. Manufacturing Costs Are Too High
In fact, there isn’t a single FCA platform that underpins over one million vehicles a year, which increases costs for manufacturing. Currently, all FCA platforms are reworks of architectures that Marchionne found when he joined Fiat in 2004, prior to taking over the bankrupted Chrysler in 2009. To meet crash standards for those platforms, each new model became heavier than its predecessor, meaning worse fuel economy, especially since most automakers are moving forward to lighter weight platforms and lightweight materials such as aluminum. Over the recent years, the weight disadvantage has continued to increase since no new platforms are being developed.

7. Fleet MPG Sucks
Last year, the FCA’s U.S. fleet averaged 21.1 mpg, which is last among all volume automakers in corporate average fuel economy. The current leader is Nissan, which has a corporate average fuel economy of 26.8 mpg. Even more ironic, the only hybrid that you can purchase from any of the company’s 11 brands is the $1.4 million LaFerrari, which we all know is hardly a car that has fuel economy as its main priority. There is, however, the Fiat 500e that’s offered in California and parts of Oregon, but even Marchionne himself has said that he hopes no one purchases it since the company loses about $14,000 per Fiat 500e sold.

8. FCA Needs to Boost Global Operations
Looking at the global market, FCA is still the sum of four regional and marginally interconnected regions, and sales are shrinking in Brazil and the company has a very minor presence currently in the Asia-Pacific. Other automakers including Toyota, GM, Ford and Hyundai all have strong presences overseas, especially in China.

9. No Progress with Autonomous Driving
FCA is also one of the few automakers that have made no progress with connected cars and autonomous driving, technologies that Marchionne calls a Pandora’s box of problems.

10. More Debt Than Cash
Lastly, FCA has a net debut of $8 billion, while every other company is in a net cash position.

Marchionne attributes some of the company’s issues to Chrysler’s former debt, having bought out the UAW’s Voluntary Employees’ Beneficiary Association with $11 billion in cash and having to repay the government loans. FCA has also had to invest billions into modernizing the factories previously held by Chrysler’s former owner, Cerberus. The CEO acknowledges that the company has work to do in catching up with hybrids and electrification, which will start with the next-generation Chrysler Town & Country minivan next year.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...g-trouble.html

[SpeedIsLife]

Way to cherry pick my post and make a worthless response. I was talking about Challenger / Hellcat customers, not commenting on FCA as a whole.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Way to cherry pick my post and make a worthless response. I was talking about Challenger / Hellcat customers, not commenting on FCA as a whole.

Building the Hellcat did nothing to make the base Challenger, Chrysler 300 or any other FCA car better. Praising it as having attributes more in tune with their customers with qualities more useful in the real world is odd.

Chevy learned a lot by pursuing the technology used in the 12 ZL1, 14 Z/28, Alpha platform and others. Whether or not that sways a BMW buyer to the Camaro or Cadillac is debatable, but it has translated to a line of cars with characteristics that can be appreciated in the real world.

Chevy didn't pursue a numb 1/4 mile bullet in the ZL1 and it was apparent from the 17s introduction that, at best, it would match the HC and 14 GT500 drag times. The accomplishment is that it can do it with chassis dynamics equal to the worlds best. That can be felt in the real world where even HC and Demons will spend 99.9% of their time and has earn GM a reputation for having some of the best chassis engineers in the world.

Meanwhile at FCA, "there isn’t a single new FCA platform that underpins over one million vehicles a year. To meet crash standards for those platforms, each new model became heavier than its predecessor"

[ULTRAZLS1]

I love how my 6g is a complete car. Handles amazing and can also run 11s no problem with a couple mods.

I don't think dodge has another play right now besides more power. Regardless I'm looking forward to this and I think its legendary.

I wonder about pricing. Shouldn't be too much more than a current hellcat challenger hopefully. Anyone know?

Looking forward to later this year with my upcoming mods. Hoping to be bottom 11 low tens range. Have a little something for the stock hellcats that frequent my track. Will be pretty cool if I can hang with them while still being NA and stock internal with an unstripped daily driven car. And when I drive it daily handles like an m3.

IMO just take this car for what it is. A strip monster. And a damn good one. One day we will look back at this era and tell our grandkids about it.

[BahamaTodd]

The Demon will have 315/40R18 Nitto NT05R all around.

[Jeffro19]

Originally Posted by BahamaTodd

The Demon will have 315/40R18 Nitto NT05R all around.

Where does it show in the video it will be 315's all the way around?

[SS 1LE]

A car that big is going to look pretty weird with just 18" wheels...

"Hey nice base Challenger!"

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by BahamaTodd

The Demon will have 315/40R18 Nitto NT05R all around.

Drag radials... front and rear? I don't think so.

[Jeffro19]

Originally Posted by Mountain

Drag radials... front and rear? I don't think so.

I can see in the back but would make no sense in the front.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Jeffro19

I can see in the back but would make no sense in the front.

If you want to kill someone going around a corner at anything above a pedestrian speed, then sure.


So if it is the NT05R on the back, then FCA elected to go the legal addendum route. But the NT05R as discussed earlier in the thread is a much more streetable DR than others. With power figures like are being discussed though, it will still be the first thing any serious racer swaps out.

[Mountain]

That license plate means something: