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Old 04-09-2012, 10:52 AM   #57
Frank in MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post
I've been sounding the alarms for a couple of months that the 4-cylinder engine will be in the new RS and the SS will have a V6 and super expensive limited production models like the ZL1 will be the only way to get a V8 Camaro, but I keep getting scolded for saying this because of some forum rules that do not allow criticism of the world we live in.

It's fine for the 500 or so people who can afford a limited production model, but everyone else will just have to make due with what the masses are offered.
I don't think it's that you're being scolded, rather that people want to know what the source of these allegations are, where are you getting this info? Where aside from your mind is this coming from?

Nowhere is GM saying this TTV6 mill is bound for the next gen Camaro. They haven't said what it will be in, might be in Silverados for all we know. We're all saying this is speculative, but the speculation is grouded in the reality that this engine is going to happen. Where are you getting the info that we're going to see the return of the iron duke?
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:32 AM   #58
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I can all but guarantee there will be NO V8 on the 6th gen camaro...they'll probably keep one on the C7 vette though.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:11 PM   #59
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I can't see GM not offering at least one V8 option for the 6th gen. I personally hope it is a smaller displacement (302-305 ci) DI/VVT engine. However, I also hope we start seeing them turbo V6s. Turbos seems to be the route everyone is going to get power and economy. Turbos also allow you to tune them for specific needs. Look at the Ecoboost 3.5. In the F-150 it is a low-end torque monster but in the SHO it has lots of mid-range HP. It is hard to do that with a NA engine and keep costs down and production rates high.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:36 PM   #60
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I can all but guarantee there will be NO V8 on the 6th gen camaro...they'll probably keep one on the C7 vette though.
And what evidence do you have which supports such accusations? Any evidence I've found disagrees with your guarantee.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:38 PM   #61
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I can all but guarantee there will be NO V8 on the 6th gen camaro...they'll probably keep one on the C7 vette though.
Based on....?
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Old 04-09-2012, 01:02 PM   #62
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Nothing released by GM that's for sure lol. Every rumor site (like gminsidenews or whatever) says the alpha 6th gen is getting a LT1...
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:25 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by iHasCamaro View Post
there won't be $6/gal gas in today's dollars for the foreseeable future. Already the price is high enough that oil sands and shale oil is feasible, and there is a shit-ton of that everywhere. It shouldn't go much higher than it is right now.
You do know that the price per gallon is not always directly related to amount available.

In the summer of 2008, gas prices rose to $4 a gallon as oil prices skyrocketed to $145 a barrel, even though demand and supply were fairly constant. In summer of 2009, gas prices again rose, despite the recession, which decreased demand. Commodities traders were the reason for both.

Also

Oil prices are set by commodities traders who buy and sell futures contracts on the commodities exchanges.These are agreements to buy or sell oil at a specific date in the future at a specific price. Commodities traders can create a self-fulfilling prophecy by bidding up oil futures prices. Once this starts, it can create an asset bubble. Unfortunately, the one who pays for this bubble is you! (credit goes to about.com for the two excerpt)

In the end it could be well over the $6.00 mark. You can never judge greed unfortunately.
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Old 04-09-2012, 04:35 PM   #64
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Seeing threads like this make me very torn as the owner of a Camaro and also someone who is studying Environmental Biology and Sustainability. We simply cannot continue using fossil fuels in this country or even the world at the rate we are now. The population simply will not allow it. OTOH, i absolutely love muscle cars and would love to own something that sounds and burns fuel like there is no tomorrow.

I won't say much more because I know my opinions aren't going to be too popular on this subject. Progress is a good thing though. If you can get comparable power and use less fuel, is this not a good thing? Even Ferrari plans to add a FI V6 to its lineup.
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Old 04-09-2012, 04:42 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by MINI HLK View Post
You do know that the price per gallon is not always directly related to amount available.

In the summer of 2008, gas prices rose to $4 a gallon as oil prices skyrocketed to $145 a barrel, even though demand and supply were fairly constant. In summer of 2009, gas prices again rose, despite the recession, which decreased demand. Commodities traders were the reason for both.

Also

Oil prices are set by commodities traders who buy and sell futures contracts on the commodities exchanges.These are agreements to buy or sell oil at a specific date in the future at a specific price. Commodities traders can create a self-fulfilling prophecy by bidding up oil futures prices. Once this starts, it can create an asset bubble. Unfortunately, the one who pays for this bubble is you! (credit goes to about.com for the two excerpt)

In the end it could be well over the $6.00 mark. You can never judge greed unfortunately.
Yes I know, but the market always corrects itself against overpriced long positions. There are just as many speculators who are short on Oil/Gas that will keep the bubbles from getting too big. For instance, ProShares Ultra Short Oil & Gas (-2x index) http://www.proshares.com/funds/dug.html is trading about $1 off it's 3-month high today.
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Old 04-09-2012, 06:33 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by M_Knife_Shamylan View Post
Seeing threads like this make me very torn as the owner of a Camaro and also someone who is studying Environmental Biology and Sustainability. We simply cannot continue using fossil fuels in this country or even the world at the rate we are now. The population simply will not allow it. OTOH, i absolutely love muscle cars and would love to own something that sounds and burns fuel like there is no tomorrow.

I won't say much more because I know my opinions aren't going to be too popular on this subject. Progress is a good thing though. If you can get comparable power and use less fuel, is this not a good thing? Even Ferrari plans to add a FI V6 to its lineup.
As more fuel efficient, full electric, and hybrid electric vehicles hit the roads, and also once natural gas takes off this should help to greatly reduce gasoline use.

I don't feel that hybrids or electric cars are the answer, but we have enough natural gas on hand to last us well over a lifetime (not to mention the money will be going to U.S. based buisnesses) and hopefully by then we'll have a new solution to get over our current addiction to gas and oil.

In a perfect world we'd get a FI 4 cylinder, N/A V6, Turbo V6, and V8 version of the 6th gen Camaro. My how I'd love to have a lighter weight, more nimble Camaro with an LFX n/a V6 crankin out something around 340 to 350 horse. Would be a very affordable nice performing car....of course if money is no object...you go with the big dog version lol.
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Old 04-09-2012, 07:32 PM   #67
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Take a look at the LFX exhaust manifold ( or lack of ) the perfect spot to mount a turbo. The mounting is already there at the head and it almost fits a T3 turbo mounting plate. Things that make you go HHHHHmmmmmmmmmmmm.
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Old 04-09-2012, 07:34 PM   #68
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Can I have a new Turbo Ecotech and a 3,200 pound 6th Gen for my next DD?
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:53 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by MINI HLK View Post
In the end it could be well over the $6.00 mark. You can never judge greed unfortunately.
No it can't. At least not for any significant period of time. Fuel at that level blows up the business model of outsourcing to cheaper labor and shipping all over the world. If fuel goes that high, it will become more expensive to outsource than produce more locally.

In short $6/gal will devastate all the emerging market economies that are dependent on exports stemming from outsourcing by developed economies. And with it, the very demand many speculators are betting will push prices higher will disappear as well. $6 gas is not a self-fulfilling prophecy, it is a self-destroying prophecy.

You are right that there is a bubble in prices at the moment. But all bubbles eventually pop sooner or later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Knife_Shamylan View Post
Seeing threads like this make me very torn as the owner of a Camaro and also someone who is studying Environmental Biology and Sustainability. We simply cannot continue using fossil fuels in this country or even the world at the rate we are now. The population simply will not allow it. OTOH, i absolutely love muscle cars and would love to own something that sounds and burns fuel like there is no tomorrow.

I won't say much more because I know my opinions aren't going to be too popular on this subject. Progress is a good thing though. If you can get comparable power and use less fuel, is this not a good thing? Even Ferrari plans to add a FI V6 to its lineup.
As someone who studies "sustainability," you should know that the Malthusians have always been wrong.

Second, TTV6s are really not any more fuel efficient than NA V8s of similar power, just more complicated. Whatever efficiency gain that comes from downsizing the engine is largely canceled out by the reduction in compression ratio forced induction requires. Ultimately, a V8 with cylinder deactivation is probably the better choice when trying to balance big power and efficiency. This is particularly true for sports cars, which are usually driven harder than normal cars. If the car is driven hard, and the turbos are always spooled up, the NA V8 may actually be the more efficient choice compared to a TTV6.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:54 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Frank in MD View Post
I don't think it's that you're being scolded, rather that people want to know what the source of these allegations are, where are you getting this info? Where aside from your mind is this coming from?

Nowhere is GM saying this TTV6 mill is bound for the next gen Camaro. They haven't said what it will be in, might be in Silverados for all we know. We're all saying this is speculative, but the speculation is grouded in the reality that this engine is going to happen. Where are you getting the info that we're going to see the return of the iron duke?
Several of our fellow members who seem to have connections to GM have stated quite bluntly on this site that the 6th gen will offer a 4-cylinder.

Nobody ever calls them liars when they say things about future GM products, so I assume that they are speaking the truth.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where this is headed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RollaMo View Post

If GM thought the market was really that small, they wouldn't even bother with the ZL1 Camaro.
They know full well how large the market is, but they simply cannot allow the market to dictate what people buy, because they answer to a higher power. I cannot discuss this further without violating forum rules. Just take it as fact. Please do not ask me to elaborate.

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You're lost. On multiple levels.
Speaking of violations, personal attacks and insults are not allowed.
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