[revychevy]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

I'm not sure if we are agreeing or disagreeing. I don't think any of us want the Camaro to turn into a 2-door Cruze. The essence of the Camaro is a sports coupe. If we are to have versions with a V8 then they will be at the upper end of the price range and they will have to be supported by a less powerful engine, more mainstream engine in the base model. What does it matter if that's a V6 or a turbo 4? To me, it doesn't matter at all if the performance is there.

What killed the RWD V8 sedan was people wanted SUVs. GM was smart putting the L99 in the Camaro and smart again building the LT-1 for trucks and cars. However, with CAFE hitting regular-duty trucks, in addition to SUVs, something will have to give there. What happens if the only way GM, Ford, etc.. can give us the power we want in a truck with the fuel economy standards coming down the pipe is via small turbo diesels? That reduces the number of platforms for a gasoline V8 again. How low a volume of those engines can they go without pricing them out of the range of most of Camaro buyers? It isn't the car manufactures fault demand for V8s in cars has decreased and fuel economy standards make them difficult to support in other platforms. We, the Camaro enthusiasts, are really a small bunch. We may want the V8, but if we resist GMs attempts to keep giving us one in the future by saying no to turbo 4s, then the Camaro may die again and it will be our own fault, not GMs.

I hear you and I agree with most of this, especially the part about SUV's. When they became popular muscle cars and sedans dropped off.

I'm just saying I never had a poster of a hot chick bent over an AMC Pacer as a boy.

Fire breathin V8s are the stuff dreams are made of, not as you so succinctly put it "a two door cruze" with a plug in for your iPod!

That damned Hamster car has that!
Please! FBodfather and the engineer gods of all that is Camaro! Don't let the Camaro be shopped with the likes of that!

[revychevy]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

So you must remember the Camaros of the 70's when we had V8's with less than 200HP, I had a 74 with a 350 V8 rated at 145HP. Was that fast? No, was that really sporty, No, but it was still a Camaro. Like it or not it's the future for the entire auto industry. V8's will be available but whether they will be affordable to the average consumer is going to be questionable.

I'm not sure I get you guys point?! YES. I remember the cars back then! I remember catalytic converters and CAFE regs then AND the oil embargo!

I don't want to do it again. You seem to be saying. "See... It sucked before, do you should be happy when it SUCKS again!

It took decades to get back to worthy muscle cars, and I might not be able to drive if they screw it up, make Iron dukes-- go back to less than 200 hp muscle cars, improve slightly, die out-- then come back 8 years later during a bankruptcy restructuring!

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by revychevy

I'm not sure I get you guys point?! YES. I remember the cars back then! I remember catalytic converters and CAFE regs then AND the oil embargo!

I don't want to do it again. You seem to be saying. "See... It sucked before, do you should be happy when it SUCKS again!

It took decades to get back to worthy muscle cars, and I might not be able to drive if they screw it up, make Iron dukes-- go back to less than 200 hp muscle cars, improve slightly, die out-- then come back 8 years later during a bankruptcy restructuring!

You act like its a choice, the point is there is no choice. There was no choice in the 70's and they HAVE to meet regulations today and in the future. If selling a few thousand 4 cylinder Camaros helps them to meet the regulations then so be it. We will still have other Camaros to choose from for quite a while, the 4 cylinder addition to the lineup will only help not hurt in that situation.

[GretchenGotGrowl]

There are some differences between today's CAFE scheme and what we went through in the 70s.

• Not being hit with an oil embargo, EPA emission changes and CAFE all at the same time
• It isn't an immediate impact, but spread over decades that can be worked into normal engine/platform lifecycles
• There is a bank of credits that can be drawn on for 5 years in a revolving manner

Those are positives. The negatives are the additions of foot prints (which is micromanaging what the manufacturers and limiting flexibility), and the inclusion of regular duty trucks just like they are SUVs when in fact they serve a different purpose and should be treated differently (I say exempt).

[revychevy]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

There are some differences between today's CAFE scheme and what we went through in the 70s.

• Not being hit with an oil embargo, EPA emission changes and CAFE all at the same time
• It isn't an immediate impact, but spread over decades that can be worked into normal engine/platform lifecycles
• There is a bank of credits that can be drawn on for 5 years in a revolving manner

Those are positives. The negatives are the additions of foot prints (which is micromanaging what the manufacturers and limiting flexibility), and the inclusion of regular duty trucks just like they are SUVs when in fact they serve a different purpose and should be treated differently (I say exempt).

Well said.

[revychevy]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

You act like its a choice, the point is there is no choice. There was no choice in the 70's and they HAVE to meet regulations today and in the future. If selling a few thousand 4 cylinder Camaros helps them to meet the regulations then so be it. We will still have other Camaros to choose from for quite a while, the 4 cylinder addition to the lineup will only help not hurt in that situation.

You may be right about their being no choice.
But maybe I just wanna whine about it awhile

When some asshat politician passes a law to confiscate your V8 like they want to do with firearms in Connecticut, then you'll be sad cause I 'll already have my whining out of the way!

[FenwickHockey65]

I still fail to see where anybody said V8s are going away.

FFS, we have a 460 HP V8 that does up to 30 MPG in a Corvette. Granted Corvette is a crapload lighter than the overweight Camaro, but still.

Again, the V8 is not the issue. The Gen Vs have ensured there will be plenty of V8s to go in the future.

What's in question is the base engine and if Camaro really needs a V6 if a turbo 4 performs just as well.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by revychevy

You may be right about their being no choice.
But maybe I just wanna whine about it awhile

When some asshat politician passes a law to confiscate your V8 like they want to do with firearms in Connecticut, then you'll be sad cause I 'll already have my whining out of the way!

I feel lots of people over react when they see the words 4 cylinder and Camaro mentioned together. Anytime you can add choices and not take away a choice can only be a good thing.

[FenwickHockey65]

This entire thread is an overreaction.

[MikeT]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

What's in question is the base engine and if Camaro really needs a V6 if a turbo 4 performs just as well.

Well, I, for one, would hate to see the V6 go. It's a solid engine.

It's interesting that Ford is positioning their turbo-4 Mustang as an upgrade to the V6. Seems a like an unconventional strategy, and it'll be interesting to watch how it works out for them.

[revychevy]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

I still fail to see where anybody said V8s are going away.

FFS, we have a 460 HP V8 that does up to 30 MPG in a Corvette. Granted Corvette is a crapload lighter than the overweight Camaro, but still.

Again, the V8 is not the issue. The Gen Vs have ensured there will be plenty of V8s to go in the future.

What's in question is the base engine and if Camaro really needs a V6 if a turbo 4 performs just as well.

Dude! We discussed this YOU were quoted as saying the V8 was a dying breed. You deny it, then when shown where you said it you admit it, then you are back to nobody said it again!

You literally just said it was going away a couple of posts ago! The guy I was just talking to said it as well.

Lots of you have said it, so what do you mean "no one said?"

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by revychevy

Dude! We discussed this YOU were quoted as saying the V8 was a dying breed. You deny it, then when shown where you said it you admit it, then you are back to nobody said it again!

You literally just said it was going away a couple of posts ago! The guy I was just talking to said it as well.

Lots of you have said it, so what do you mean "no one said?"

I don't know if you were talking about me but I did say V8's were a dying breed, I think I was refering to Fen's comment about V8 RWD sedans, but I also said they would still be available only it may be in limited quantities.
I am just saying adding a 4 cylinder to the Camaro lineup can be beneficial to help keep the V8 around and the Camaro in the Chevy lineup.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by revychevy

Dude! We discussed this YOU were quoted as saying the V8 was a dying breed. You deny it, then when shown where you said it you admit it, then you are back to nobody said it again!

You literally just said it was going away a couple of posts ago! The guy I was just talking to said it as well.

Lots of you have said it, so what do you mean "no one said?"

I NEVER SAID V8s WERE A DYING BREED. I SAID RWD V8 SEDANS ARE A DYING BREED.

Reading comprehension. Learn it.

[revychevy]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Yep. What people fail to realize is without the 4 and 6 cylinders of the world, their precious V8s will definitely cease to exist.

And just sayin', GM just cracked the 300 HP mark with the 2.0T with the Astra GTC Extreme.

So unless we have a 4 cylinder Camaro V8's and I guess Corvettes can't exist ?

You did say this right? My reading comprehension is fine, mr sanctimonious. How's your memory? If you believe something or misspoke something state your case without the snide insults.

It makes you seem like a dick just because I don't like 4 banger muscle cars.
Are you employed by GM to convince everyone that 4 cylinder Camaro's will be better than 8 cylinder? Better than 6? This is a car enthusiast site for people who like Camaro's.

Is there room for people who like it the way it is, or do all of us have to get on your turbo 4 bandwagon?

As I said before , they may do it -- maybe they do what Dodge has done with SRT8 and price it out of reach making the 4 banger the 34 grand car and pricing the V8 in the 50 grand range.

I won't buy it. I won't buy GM if they turn this car into a glorified econo honda thingy.

Others probably won't either, so unless a law is passed forcing people to buy specific cars on a government exchange or face a fine-- I'll be done when this car is a 4 cylinder.