Poll: Forged pistons & Rods in Z 28?

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

What EXACTLY makes it an Achilles Heel?

I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading in here...I truly can't. First word that comes to mind is "brainwashed"...but I don't know who did the cleaning!

I can see and feel apprehension regarding this topic, but really, I think it's getting out of hand. All we need now are more of the Mustang trolls to come into this Section and cause more trouble over nothing.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by radz28

I can see and feel apprehension regarding this topic, but really, I think it's getting out of hand. All we need now are more of the Mustang trolls to come into this Section and cause more trouble over nothing.

I guess I'm more than a little annoyed that even the Z28 section now has been..."infiltrated". I'll just have to hold my tongue until the Z28 comes out and then let loose with a barrage of "I told you so"s....but I won't. I'm too nice.

EDIT: I've got to say though...this steaming pile of "if the Z isn't good to 800 hp from the factory then its a fail"...is straight-up stupid. (And I don't ever say things like that...)

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I guess I'm more than a little annoyed that even the Z28 section now has been..."infiltrated". I'll just have to hold my tongue until the Z28 comes out and then let loose with a barrage of "I told you so"s....but I won't. I'm too nice.

I won't stand for infiltration, especially in this Section

[radz28]

Stay on topic...

[Super83Z]

Now the Boss has forged pistons! That motor is N/A! Chevy really needs to step up on this.

[Q-ship]

This is going to tick-off alot of the I want the Z28 to have the parts that I think it needs and the rest of the consumers can just suck it up....cause I want it.

There is more to installing the LSA with forged pistons than just the cost of the upgrade. It WILL require new emission certification due to the looser tolerences that the forged piston requires, besides the EPA will require recert because of the change alone.....sorry that is the truth so suck it up. This will add a bigger cost than a few hundred dollars that the internet experts keep throwwing around. The LSA being used in the CTS-V does require that it run quiet, does the Camaro, no but are you willing to suck up the cost so GM can build the engine the way you would from a clean sheet of paper?

If GM were building an engine for the Z28 from a clean sheet then yes it should have forged pistons, but that isn't what is happening.

Here is how I would pitch it at GM if I were in powertrain, the LS7 is on the way out, the Z06 is a sales success. Build an engine for the Z28 and Z06 that is a tuned up LSA with the forged internals that would spread the cost over enough vehicles to make the cost reasonable for both models.

[Scarrzz]

Originally Posted by Q-ship

This is going to tick-off alot of the I want the Z28 to have the parts that I think it needs and the rest of the consumers can just suck it up....cause I want it.

There is more to installing the LSA with forged pistons than just the cost of the upgrade. It WILL require new emission certification due to the looser tolerances that the forged piston requires, besides the EPA will require recert because of the change alone.....sorry that is the truth so suck it up. This will add a bigger cost than a few hundred dollars that the internet experts keep throwing around. The LSA being used in the CTS-V does require that it run quiet, does the Camaro, no but are you willing to suck up the cost so GM can build the engine the way you would from a clean sheet of paper?

If GM were building an engine for the Z28 from a clean sheet then yes it should have forged pistons, but that isn't what is happening.

Here is how I would pitch it at GM if I were in powertrain, the LS7 is on the way out, the Z06 is a sales success. Build an engine for the Z28 and Z06 that is a tuned up LSA with the forged internals that would spread the cost over enough vehicles to make the cost reasonable for both models.

Definitely not ticked off, that's a reasoned and valid viewpoint. I wonder how long it takes & how much it costs to have an established engine with some modifications re-certified. It might still be worth it in the long run.

It seems pretty obvious that the majority of potential buyers would consider a forged bottom end to be worth more, maybe another selling point even. I know I would be willing to pay more for it, but the question becomes how MUCH more, and would it be more cost effective for GM to offer the Z with it or without it.

Sounds like a Z28 ultimate performance package option might be the way to go, that way those who can barely afford the Z28 won't be saddled with extra cost of something they don't care about, and might be the breaking point of being able to afford the Z28 at all. Then again, they could still get the 2SS, which is still the hottest muscle car around until the Z materializes.

Common sense just screams to me that they could put new forged parts in from the get-go for no more than half what they would cost if done later by a performance shop.

.

[ironpeddler]

Gotta have some forged internals. You can do amazing things with them. Check out the vid in my sig. All on stock block. Pretty much just a blower swp.

[thok mcbeefstew]

1st, I love Mustang guys on a Camaro forum. I think it's great. I've never been to a mustang forum website before. Mostly because mustangs don't intrest me at all.

2nd, I don't want this to come out wrong, but the z28, when it comes out will be a low 40K for the price, and we should all expect to get something for that price. The Z28 will not be a 50+ car because the Camaro was invented to be the "poor man’s" corvette. Yes, there are guys on this sight that will only buy a Camaro, and I would rather buy a Camaro than a Vette as well, but most of the general public that wants a muscle car will not. And because GM wants to offer some super muscle, while keeping the Vette community separate from the Camaro community, they will do that.

3rd, the Z28 will be the GT500 because it has to. And GM will do it for less because they have to. The Corvette has morphed into a car "especially the ZR1" that competes with supercars 4X its price. Therefore, the z28 will be the GT500 competitor, while keeping the price lower to keep Camaro people, Camaro people.

Just my thoughts, I'm now ready to be blasted by you guys.

[thok mcbeefstew]

oh, and the guys "hoping" the 50+ price on the z28, are all mustang gt500 guys that want it to be that high, so they don't feel so bad when they get smoked by a car that is 10 grand less.

[Monte Carlo Man]

I don't know all the in's and outs of this forum, but I got into this in the middle and not the beginning so bare with me here.

If you take apart a 5.3 or 6.0 L engine, you will find that the pistons in that motor compares to a JE piston of the same design. It has a strong deck and short skirts - which allows it to be lighter then the pistons of say 20 years ago.

The engine in your Camaro - combined with the auto transmission and rear end is designed to travel between 0 and 80 mph, which is where most people are at when they are driving down the road.

Even back in 1963 - when Chevrolet did engine tests, they threw away the stock pistons and replaced them with a forged JE piston and an aftermarket camshaft - which was usually all they had to do to run the tests that they wished to perform.

The blocks were more then strong enough for the 300 HP that the factory had designed them for and the crankshafts for the most part were all steel in the 283 and 327 engines.

It wasn't until 1968 that GM realized that they were wasting valuable time and money by putting good stuff into a motor that was only going to start up, putter to town to pick up a loave of bread and a gallon of milk and putter back home.

I can attest to the fact that a stock production motor will take a lot of abuse before it gives up the ghost and that most of the newer engines will go 100,000+ miles if unmolested. This serves the purpose for 90% of the people who buys them.

Why then should they put another $3000 to the price tag of a new vehicle, just so the other 10% can modify the engine without touching the bottom end.

GM will guarentee you that the 5.3 will produce 500+ HP with no reliability issues - with nothing more then a modified intake manifold, computer upgrade, camshaft and exhaust. So what is the problem here?
How much hp is enough for you people?

[jayman]

Originally Posted by thok mcbeefstew

oh, and the guys "hoping" the 50+ price on the z28, are all mustang gt500 guys that want it to be that high, so they don't feel so bad when they get smoked by a car that is 10 grand less.

You can't build a camaro and make it close to the quality of the gt500 and make it perform better for 10 grand less. This will be a high 40k dollar car. There is no way around it. You take a fully loaded camaro to equal the leather and other interior upgrades that the gt500 has and then you have to add a 6k to 7k dollar blower and add about 3k to 5k worth of suspension and brake upgrades. So you end up with a car that has a total price of around 48k. The z28 will not be a low 40k dollar car.

[Crowley]

if the car is going to truly go against the GT500, it should be lower compression and built from the factory ..

Crowley

[Mr. Wyndham]

With such a WIDE range of thoughts and opinions in here...it's going to be Crazy-fun to watch what they REALLY do with the car. I can't wait!