[kropscamaro16]

thanks guys for all the feedback btw my buddy john powell aka powell raceshop is working on some "track" springs that you guys will all love. 1" drop made by hyperco private label for him...had some on my cobalt ss and they were awesome! paired with a big rear swaybar and koni yellow shocks the car rode like it was on rails!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by kropscamaro16

thanks guys for all the feedback btw my buddy john powell aka powell raceshop is working on some "track" springs that you guys will all love. 1" drop made by hyperco private label for him...had some on my cobalt ss and they were awesome! paired with a big rear swaybar and koni yellow shocks the car rode like it was on rails!

Would it be the same John who's son is Devon?

[Provoste]

Originally Posted by glamcem

Thanks for all the remedies but I already tried everything possible with current suspension setup (tires, pressures..etc) and it looks like the only thing works at this point is to change my driving style a little bit which is a band aid solution. I already had some email conversations with Provoste and he also stated that he had to add more camber to reduce understeer. Sean mentioned that he had to change his driving style to compensate understeer a few posts above Just because Randy Pobst puts a good lap times doesn't mean car doesn't understeer . There are very fast guys who prefer a bit of understeer in his FWD cars, I just don't like it and am doing my best to eliminate that


This has been discussed before and proven many times, this is a common misconception; the steering "feel" has nothing to do with the actual grip and the understeer. As long as you can fit them and it's within the manufacturer's range, the wider tires will always result in more grip and better lap times , period.

My close friend who has been using 315s on the 10.5" wheels up front on his C7 Z51 (with LG coilovers ) had some great results with no ill effects. Both he and I didn't notice any steering wheel softness also. Tire shape, and sidewall stiffness also has a lot to do with that of course

So this is where you guys have been hiding!

As for understeer- show me a car that people say doesn't understeer, and I can make it understeer. That said, my 1LE is probably the most understeer resistant car I've ever driven, and the balance is very easy to adjust with the throttle. That said, I HATE understeer. Hence my moves with wheels & tires:
1) run 295 square on OEM wheels
2) run square track wheels/tires (280 or 285 in my case). I've had zero issues with getting power down with 280 width rears. If anything, the narrower rear brings more mid-corner adjustability with throttle.

Cem- If I were in your shoes fighting unwanted understeer, I'd be looking at going back to a 305 rear.

Also, a side note--- I know this isn't applicable for everyone invloved in this discussion, but I also wonder if even guys running in "race" PTM are experiencing front end push because PTM is limiting power to help aid power down traction? I had this experience when I drove a friend's GTR on track, in "R" mode it pushed like a pig... but when i turned everyting off it would turn on the throttle like nobody's business.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by glamcem

This has been discussed before and proven many times, this is a common misconception; the steering "feel" has nothing to do with the actual grip and the understeer. As long as you can fit them and it's within the manufacturer's range, the wider tires will always result in more grip and better lap times , period.

My close friend who has been using 315s on the 10.5" wheels up front on his C7 Z51 (with LG coilovers ) had some great results with no ill effects. Both he and I didn't notice any steering wheel softness also. Tire shape, and sidewall stiffness also has a lot to do with that of course

As long as you have more additional grip to work with than the incremental amount of understeer needs before it saturates and washes out, you can have more understeer along with the greater amount of grip. Grip and understeer are not mutually exclusive things/concepts.


Norm

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Provoste

So this is where you guys have been hiding!

As for understeer- show me a car that people say doesn't understeer, and I can make it understeer. That said, my 1LE is probably the most understeer resistant car I've ever driven, and the balance is very easy to adjust with the throttle. That said, I HATE understeer. Hence my moves with wheels & tires:
1) run 295 square on OEM wheels
2) run square track wheels/tires (280 or 285 in my case). I've had zero issues with getting power down with 280 width rears. If anything, the narrower rear brings more mid-corner adjustability with throttle.

Cem- If I were in your shoes fighting unwanted understeer, I'd be looking at going back to a 305 rear.

Also, a side note--- I know this isn't applicable for everyone invloved in this discussion, but I also wonder if even guys running in "race" PTM are experiencing front end push because PTM is limiting power to help aid power down traction? I had this experience when I drove a friend's GTR on track, in "R" mode it pushed like a pig... but when i turned everyting off it would turn on the throttle like nobody's business.

As usual your comments make perfect sense

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Provoste

So this is where you guys have been hiding!

As for understeer- show me a car that people say doesn't understeer, and I can make it understeer. That said, my 1LE is probably the most understeer resistant car I've ever driven, and the balance is very easy to adjust with the throttle. That said, I HATE understeer. Hence my moves with wheels & tires:
1) run 295 square on OEM wheels
2) run square track wheels/tires (280 or 285 in my case). I've had zero issues with getting power down with 280 width rears. If anything, the narrower rear brings more mid-corner adjustability with throttle.

Cem- If I were in your shoes fighting unwanted understeer, I'd be looking at going back to a 305 rear.

Also, a side note--- I know this isn't applicable for everyone invloved in this discussion, but I also wonder if even guys running in "race" PTM are experiencing front end push because PTM is limiting power to help aid power down traction? I had this experience when I drove a friend's GTR on track, in "R" mode it pushed like a pig... but when i turned everyting off it would turn on the throttle like nobody's business.

I already tried 305 SQ Setup but I still had to deal with the understeer. To be fair though, I wasn't running -2.9 front camber and/or -.05 toe out ( -2.3 camber with 0 toe previously) back then. In addition to that, Trofeo Rs had a bit softer sidewall and it was noticeable compared to NT01s. Maybe if I ran 305 NT01s or 295 RE71Rs the results would differ since they have stiffer sidewalls.

For running 305 or 295 SQ setup with real R comps or slicks might be a good idea. My slicks will be in 295 680 19" and 305 690 19" as they were the best set they had in their hand, I didn't want to get some other 305s.

For NT01s, I will stick to 325s in the rear since it dramatically improved the rear end grip compared to oem tires with 305. I can definitely be on WOT much quicker than before with the expense of more understeer maybe when compared to SQ setup who knows. Since I could find the 325s dirt cheap last time I ordered another set of rears so it will take a while to try the full SQ on my the first setup .

[Provoste]

Originally Posted by glamcem

I already tried 305 SQ Setup but I still had to deal with the understeer. To be fair though, I wasn't running -2.9 front camber and/or -.05 toe out ( -2.3 camber with 0 toe previously) back then. In addition to that, Trofeo Rs had a bit softer sidewall and it was noticeable compared to NT01s. Maybe if I ran 305 NT01s or 295 RE71Rs the results would differ since they have stiffer sidewalls.

For running 305 or 295 SQ setup with real R comps or slicks might be a good idea. My slicks will be in 295 680 19" and 305 690 19" as they were the best set they had in their hand, I didn't want to get some other 305s.

For NT01s, I will stick to 325s in the rear since it dramatically improved the rear end grip compared to oem tires with 305. I can definitely be on WOT much quicker than before with the expense of more understeer maybe when compared to SQ setup who knows. Since I could find the 325s dirt cheap last time I ordered another set of rears so it will take a while to try the full SQ on my the first setup .

Yeah lots of variables there. That NT01 deal is just nuts! You'll be happy with the P-Zeros, looking forward to your feedback!

[OminouSS]

stock 285/305 setup.



Thank God there is no undeersteer in the car!

Switched to 315/295 an hour later.

[seanblurr]

Provoste,

I have no doubt PTM:race vs. all aids off plays a role too. 100%.

[OminouSS]

Originally Posted by seanblurr

Provoste,

I have no doubt PTM:race vs. all aids off plays a role too. 100%.

Especially with wonky tire setups.

[seanblurr]

Originally Posted by OminouSS

Especially with wonky tire setups.

You're wonky.

[kropscamaro16]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Would it be the same John who's son is Devon?

yes sir same guy!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by kropscamaro16

yes sir same guy!

Sweet! Know both of them well. Too bad Devon had to get out of biz but Dave is doing a stellar job in his stead. Nobody else touches my car...

[JRL1LE]

My 2017 SS 1LE is bone stock and does not understeer and I've had it on 3 different tracks and I drive it hard. I actually put more rear toe-in to settle down the rear. Maybe go toward zero rear toe to loosen up the rear to cure understeer.