[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Thor142

Right. Ford went bankrupt when? Never mind, I'm sure cutting 2000 jobs is exactly what GM needed to keep corporate forecasts where they need to be. Go Wall St.
If you have to cut 2000 jobs on a new product only 11 months after you hired them. You failed.

I don't know man. Article said they were losing 810 jobs at that plant by eliminating the third shift. It sounds like Chevy has greater ability to scale production to actual demand than Ford does by halting production for a week on an over capacity two shift plant.

I found this pretty interesting (link below). Gen4 Camaro was producing 120k cars/year in a 200k car/year plant. That spells death and if I understand the Ford numbers correctly it looks similarly bad. I googled the plant numbers, etc... looked correct but I'm not an expert
http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showpo...8&postcount=98

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I don't know man. Article said they were losing 810 jobs at that plant by eliminating the third shift. It sounds like Chevy has greater ability to scale production to actual demand than Ford does by halting production for a week on an over capacity two shift plant.

I found this pretty interesting (link below). Gen4 Camaro was producing 120k cars/year in a 200k car/year plant. That spells death and if I understand the Ford numbers correctly it looks similarly bad. I googled the plant numbers, etc... looked correct but I'm not an expert
http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showpo...8&postcount=98

Somewhere on the Gen5 side of the site there is the "real" story of the death of the gen4. There's a LOT more to it. GM wanted that plant closed.

OK so I stand corrected. the 2000 number is for all layoffs company wide. Still 810 full time jobs lost hits a community hard. It's an especially hard pill to swallow when GM is posting great profits and bragging about making more per car, sales volume be dammed.
It's easy to post numbers and cheer on GM's profit model when it's not you on the unemployment line. I know it's in vogue to dismiss the human element to issues like this but I can't. I think there's room to sell these cars for a lot less and still make money, and keep people working.

[20162$$]

Originally Posted by Thor142

Somewhere on the Gen5 side of the site there is the "real" story of the death of the gen4. There's a LOT more to it. GM wanted that plant closed.

OK so I stand corrected. the 2000 number is for all layoffs company wide. Still 810 full time jobs lost hits a community hard. It's an especially hard pill to swallow when GM is posting great profits and bragging about making more per car, sales volume be dammed.
It's easy to post numbers and cheer on GM's profit model when it's not you on the unemployment line. I know it's in vogue to dismiss the human element to issues like this but I can't. I think there's room to sell these cars for a lot less and still make money, and keep people working.

Gm has been doing this for decades.. Its nothing new.. Its never been about the employees.. It never will be.. Thats why the employees unionized. Read labor history you will see...

[Homer2]

Originally Posted by Thor142

. I think there's room to sell these cars for a lot less and still make money, and keep people working.

That is not the goal of any large corporation.. they have to pay the owners. Rule 1. Nothing changes that now, never will. Any variation or claim to the contrary is a marketing play or a rare organization.

[kasperdsmk]

Originally Posted by SpookShow'84

I wonder if this will effect QC? Hopefully they'll keep the good employees but that might mean to them the most experienced/higher paid ones could get the axe.

Its a Union Plant. Lowest Seniority always get the boot.. They never needed a 3rd shift. That's GM trying to play catch up, now there caught up on production there cutting the shift.. They were so behind on the launch from all the problems with QC and Assembly. Its why they started the shift in the first place. Almost all of the Big 3 plants run 2 shifts 10 hours now a days, with 4 hours of PM's being done to the lines in-between. Chrysler runs 3 shifts 10 hour blocks on 4 day rotations on 6 days a week so there is none to little over time being payed for the Jeep Grand Cherokee

[Marine Corps]

The story about the layoffs was in the news nationally in newspapers, t.v., and on the radio. I bet the forum members didn't need to read about it on Camaro6.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by 20162$$

Gm has been doing this for decades.. Its nothing new.. Its never been about the employees.. It never will be.. Thats why the employees unionized. Read labor history you will see...

Originally Posted by Homer2

That is not the goal of any large corporation.. they have to pay the owners. Rule 1. Nothing changes that now, never will. Any variation or claim to the contrary is a marketing play or a rare organization.

Yeah, I get it. Corporations are entities with zero responsibility to anyone. I don't need to read labor union history. I despise labor unions, almost as much as corporations. No one wins. It's very unfortunate for the 800 people who lost their jobs.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by Thor142

Yeah, I get it. Corporations are entities with zero responsibility to anyone. I don't need to read labor union history. I despise labor unions, almost as much as corporations. No one wins. It's very unfortunate for the 800 people who lost their jobs.

^^^THIS^^^ I agree 100%.

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by RealG

Yes well that was my point the people who are in the 70K and up bracket for a car with some exceptions of course are not affected like the rank-and-file workers that most of us are. I would say most middle-class buyers can't afford a hellcat now. As for the cruise I think it's just a POS in that segment compared to the competition. No matter the price

You should check out the new Cruze, it scored 2nd out of 7 in motor trends last big test of small cars. I bought one for a daily driver and I'm pretty impressed.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/honda...ompact-sedans/

[Jeb114]

The car industry is in a wait and see mode. Trump winning means they have to reassess there sales model. If he imposes the 35% tariff on vehicles built outside the U.S. Car prices will spike they have to add it to the sticker. Trump is a pro energy guy subsidies for alternate fuel cars may disappear. I think e85 will be history. That's a lot of money that the auto industry will not receive. Big picture here is major companies are holding there breath as to what will happen in the next 6 months. He is going to restructure the tax rate for everyone, big chances are coming. People will not run out and make big purchases right now who knows what the interest rates will be in the next six month's. Times are a changing.

[Glen e]

I agree the third shift was never needed, that's just them getting greedy, and they didn't pull the third shift because anything going on in politics now, these things are not decided in an instant, it's simply because sales aren't there. I worked in production control for BMW in South Carolina for two years , plans are thought out way ahead of time in terms of scheduling and shifts. When lots fill up at the dealership, production goes down. Car compwnies only have one priority; keeping the plants running. Because everything that is produced is sold to a dealer immediately , so the cash just comes back. When dealers choke up, The whole plan stops… In the industry they call it "you can't eat like an elephant and shit like a bird."

[ctrlz]

According to this article cutting the 3rd shift is very pragmatic considering the seasonal slowing of car sales and planned renovations at the facility.
http://www.wilx.com/content/news/GM-...400545291.html

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Glen e

I agree the third shift was never needed, that's just them getting greedy, and they didn't pull the third shift because anything going on in politics now, these things are not decided in an instant, it's simply because sales aren't there. I worked in production control for BMW in South Carolina for two years , plans are thought out way ahead of time in terms of scheduling and shifts. When lots fill up at the dealership, production goes down. Car compwnies only have one priority; keeping the plants running. Because everything that is produced is sold to a dealer immediately , so the cash just comes back. When dealers choke up, The whole plan stops… In the industry they call it "you can't eat like an elephant and shit like a bird."

Agree. The third shift wasn't needed. Dropping the prices or shooting for rental car fleet and base trim sales isn't going to change that. Mustang's 32% drop proves that and they appear to have a real capacity problem.

Fact is, GM was able to scale production back 30% to meet the actual demand. Camaro sales were not inflated by "rental car fleet" and "base trim" sales so volume is stable with 90% being retail customers.

As Ford dropped 12% and FCA 10.3%, GM went down 1.7%. Thor asked how is "lower sales numbers working out for them". GM answers "we want to build sustainability". They do appear (to me anyway) to be approaching the market better than they did in the past when they chased volume for volumes sake.

[Glen e]

Yup, the guys that make a decision at the plant for how many to produce get what's called a "daily operating control" report. At the top of it is dealer dealer supply; The amount of units on the ground in dealer lots,that are not selling. When that number goes up over a quarter, they start to pull the brakes on production. And the COO yells at everybody… LOL