[cellsafemode]

nobody is buying cars right now. The slump in demand has nothing to do with the camaro and everything to do with a market that is only buying SUV's and trucks.

Vehicles like the camaro will be doubly hit hard because they're not niche enough in their market to be protected. Add that to everything that the Camaro (and other sport cars) is that isn't an SUV and you have where we're at today with sales.

This has been a long time in the making.... Even before the camaro was really even getting sold at the end of 2015. There's literally nothing the camaro could have done differently without being produced as a Camry or some Kia sedan that would have allowed it to flip it's current situation.

[mattie]

Crappy topic for a 1st post....

SUV's & trucks dominate the landscape. Cars are just becoming a tough sell anymore.
Camaro's to me are the fun/extra car to have. Not the day-to-day go to vehicle.
Not surprising that production is slowing. Dealerships parking lots are full - regardless of brand type.

(off topic: can't decide, coupe or vert.)

[Boilermaker128]

Maybe rwd market is saturated with competition.

[RealG]

I read that the Challenger sales are dropping off with the exception of the hellcat. I would imagine the Corvette sales should be falling off as well , maybe more.
I also think it has a lot to do with incomes not keeping up with the pace of prices for these new cars and houses and everything else. Sure gas is a little cheaper now but everything else is so expensive and most peoples wages have not gone up significantly over the last 20 years. The Camaro was a middle Class extra car . the middle class is basically almost gone. Rich people buy rich people cars and poor people drive poor people cars. The Camaro doesn't really fit in any of those categories

[paul84043]

Originally Posted by SkipNWis

I my mind there never should have been a 2016 Model. They should have made it a 2017 and made a bigger thing out of the 50th. Brought everything online at once

That would have been a very good idea and given them more time to run up the product line and debug.

Unfortunately, the bottom line is always profit, no matter what.

[paul84043]

Originally Posted by RealG

I read that the Challenger sales are dropping off with the exception of the hellcat. I would imagine the Corvette sales should be falling off as well , maybe more.
I also think it has a lot to do with incomes not keeping up with the pace of prices for these new cars and houses and everything else. Sure gas is a little cheaper now but everything else is so expensive and most peoples wages have not gone up significantly over the last 20 years. The Camaro was a middle Class extra car . the middle class is basically almost gone. Rich people buy rich people cars and poor people drive poor people cars. The Camaro doesn't really fit in any of those categories

How "niche" is the Hellcat really though? Is it a surprise that people that can afford a $70K car aren't particularly affected by market forces that bother us little people?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Thor142

Hows that higher profit margin on lower sales numbers working out for them? Oh wait we only care about corporate bottom line here.....

Chevy is dropping the third shift at LGR. Two Shifts building Camaro/ATS/CTS. Dropping from 2725 employees to 1915 (-810 according to article). Camaro has 120 day supply on lots. Cadillac sold 2,617 ATS/CTS in October

Ford's Flat Rock plant halted production completely for a week in October. Two shifts building Mustang and Lincoln Continental. Employs 3,251. Mustang has 89 day supply on lots. Continental sold 1,222 in October

Camaro sales have been steady and rising. Mustang sales fell 32%

Mustang incentives were about $2,700 last month, down from about $3,000 in August, compared to Camaro incentives that nearly tripled from about $1,100 in August to more than $3,300 in September

Even incentives but Camaro starting at a higher MSRP

GM North America President Alan Batey told reporters that GM has a different strategy for Camaro than Ford has for Mustang. GM says it is selling about 90 percent of Camaros to retail customers

"We are selling this product and customers are paying for the product, a great value for money", Batey told reporters. "Ford is transacting rent-a-car fleet business, base level trims.
Our strategy here, if we have to give up share, we want to build sustainability and we want to have the best car. We have the best car and people are buying more of them and the ATPs speak for themselves."

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Chevy is dropping the third shift at LGR. Two Shifts building Camaro/ATS/CTS. Dropping from 2725 employees to 1915 (-810 according to article). Camaro has 120 day supply on lots. Cadillac sold 2,617 ATS/CTS in October

Ford's Flat Rock plant halted production completely for a week in October. Two shifts building Mustang and Lincoln Continental. Employs 3,251. Mustang has 89 day supply on lots. Continental sold 1,222 in October

Camaro sales have been steady and rising. Mustang sales fell 32%

Bet those 3rd shift workers are overjoyed at GM's rising profits per car.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Thor142

Bet those 3rd shift workers are overjoyed at GM's rising profits per car.

Sustainability

[MikeR]

So why does whole Europe only gets 500 Camaros a year ? Why no 1LE, no ZL1 ??? Europe is a big Market. Why do we have to pay 50.000 Euros for an SS ? My Convertible is 57.500 Euros ( 68.000 $ ) !!! That´s to much when we look to the american market where the same car is sold for 45.000 $.

So I agree, it´s all about the prices !

The future will show, if Donald Trump is right. In my opinion he´s not. If every ( EVERY !!! ) part for a car is produced in the US, these parts are so expensive that the price for a car raises to much for the average employee. So who can afford a new car ? Europe and the rest of the world will also come up with taxes and fees for products from the states so who wins in this ?

Let´s hope the best !

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Sustainability

As in, trying to sell cars for more than people are willing to pay for them flies in the face of sustainability?

I don't know man, a depressed area just lost 2000 jobs. How sustainable is that? I'll take a week off building rent a car fleets at base trim compared to a indefinite layoff building cars for record profits any day. But hey Corporate profits are up.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Thor142

As in, trying to sell cars for more than people are willing to pay for them flies in the face of sustainability?

I don't know man, a depressed area just lost 2000 jobs. How sustainable is that? I'll take a week off building rent a car fleets at base trim compared to a indefinite layoff building cars for record profits any day. But hey Corporate profits are up.

Look at the numbers. Flat Rock employees more in two shifts than Lansing did in three. Ford's numbers look unsustainable and that puts them all in danger.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Look at the numbers. Flat Rock employees more in two shifts than Lansing did in three. Ford's numbers look unsustainable and that puts them all in danger.

Right. Ford went bankrupt when? Never mind, I'm sure cutting 2000 jobs is exactly what GM needed to keep corporate forecasts where they need to be. Go Wall St.
If you have to cut 2000 jobs on a new product only 11 months after you hired them. You failed.

[RealG]

Originally Posted by paul84043

How "niche" is the Hellcat really though? Is it a surprise that people that can afford a $70K car aren't particularly affected by market forces that bother us little people?

Yes well that was my point the people who are in the 70K and up bracket for a car with some exceptions of course are not affected like the rank-and-file workers that most of us are. I would say most middle-class buyers can't afford a hellcat now. As for the cruise I think it's just a POS in that segment compared to the competition. No matter the price