[ThatRedFirebird]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

Is this the first month that we were outsold by the Challenger? That's disappointing considering how much work has been put into the Camaro and the Challengers platform is as old as the hills.

The Scat Pack has been HUGE for them. Those things aren't discounted at all (neither are Heck Cats, but those are lower volume of course).

The more "base" RT's that used to sell so well are now found at any dealership in MI with $8000 off MSRP. Scat Packs? Maybe $1000 haha.

The significantly nicer (compared to previous model Chally) interior with more usable space compared to other ponies, and revised exterior (that was already the prior public favorite) has catapulted the sales of a car that's almost a decade old underneath.

Mustang will sell well because it's cheap and the looks are dynamite. Ford knocked it out of the park with the design. Plus something like 10-12% of them goes to rentals (Challengers sell a lot too).

Camaro 6th gen is occupying the same place as 4th gen. Best performance, best efficiency, "weakest" (opinion of course) looks, hardest to live with (tiny trunk and rear seat room, visibility), most expensive.

I love my Camaro but I can see why it is where it is in the market right now.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Sales aren't great.. Good. All of them had a drop for June from the looks of it.

I keep reading that people here are butthurt because it sells less than Mustang.. I don't see the butthurt on here I guess, especially not due to sales.

[BMR Tech]

I see people implying they expect this and are not surprised etc.

Honestly, I am very shocked at these #'s.

I guess we will go buy a Challenger and start making parts for them.

[ChefBorOzzy]

I'd build parts for whatever the market is.. Mustang market should be the most profitable unless the parts market is over saturated.. Obviously there are more Mustangs on the road and they do need a bit more help from a suspension standpoint.

[raptor5244]

C'mon people, I did my part.

I agree the pricing is higher than I would like but if you really perform the analysis comparisons there is nothing that truly compares for the money. The Camaro SS is being compared to BMW M4s and the like now. It drives like a Corvette Stingray and costs $20k less, how can you beat it? As for the actual sales numbers, as it has been discussed before we don't know the profit structure on the Camaro so just because they are selling fewer cars that doesn't mean they are turning a healthy profit.

Taking the Camaro upmarket usually means lower overall sales but higher profits. I was just comparing a Camaro 2SS to an Audi RS5. The Camaro edges it out in performance and the base Audi RS5 starts at $72k. The challenge you run into when you creep into that $45-50k range is that you start to reach the buyers who are willing to pay for status brands. BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Infiniti, Lexus, etc. These status brands also lease out much better that a Camaro. A loaded Camaro 2SS with $0 down is gonna lease out around $600 or more per month. You could lease many luxury sports coupes/sedans with decent performance for $100-200 less per month.

So, the question is what type of buyer actually buys the Camaro? I think the old school muscle car enthusiasts are probably buying the Challengers. They have that big over the top presence when rolling down the road, shaker hoods and great retro looks. Some may argue it is more practical but c'mon no one buys any of these cars for practicality. The Camaro buyer is someone who appreciates the lines of a sportier coupe as well as lighter weight and better handling. IMO, the Mustang appeals to a wider range folks. It strikes a pretty good balance of styling and performance for the non-enthusiast. If a true enthusiast really compares the Mustang GT and Camaro SS it will be glaringly obvious that the Camaro offers a lot more.

For example, the Camaro SS comes with bigger wheels and includes expensive run-flat tires, NPP and MRC options, quick shifting A8 auto or a rev-matching Tremec 6 speed vs. not very well received MT82 manual. The Camaro gets the LT1 engine with direct injection technology making more hp and tq across the entire rpm range. Inside, you get HUD with g-meter, Nav system that can integrate with display and HUD, ventilated leather seats, WiFi LTE, wireless phone charger, blah, blah.

C'mon folks go test drive one. You will love it.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Think about it this way.. If this is the worst month of the year for them (for some reason), it'll still sell over 60k. That's not enough to kill a car, people..

[ChefBorOzzy]

The lagging sales is probably not due to the v8 trim, but because 4 and 6 aren't selling in high members..

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

Think about it this way.. If this is the worst month of the year for them (for some reason), it'll still sell over 60k. That's not enough to kill a car, people..

Agreed. Mazda sell less than 1000 Miatas per month and they have been selling that car for 25 years. 5000 car a month is still healthy business for a car like this.

[American Legend]

Originally Posted by ThatRedFirebird

The Scat Pack has been HUGE for them. Those things aren't discounted at all (neither are Heck Cats, but those are lower volume of course).

The more "base" RT's that used to sell so well are now found at any dealership in MI with $8000 off MSRP. Scat Packs? Maybe $1000 haha.

The significantly nicer (compared to previous model Chally) interior with more usable space compared to other ponies, and revised exterior (that was already the prior public favorite) has catapulted the sales of a car that's almost a decade old underneath.

Mustang will sell well because it's cheap and the looks are dynamite. Ford knocked it out of the park with the design. Plus something like 10-12% of them goes to rentals (Challengers sell a lot too).

Camaro 6th gen is occupying the same place as 4th gen. Best performance, best efficiency, "weakest" (opinion of course) looks, hardest to live with (tiny trunk and rear seat room, visibility), most expensive.

I love my Camaro but I can see why it is where it is in the market right now.

+1. Well said.

[quikag]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

C'mon people, I did my part.

I agree the pricing is higher than I would like but if you really perform the analysis comparisons there is nothing that truly compares for the money. The Camaro SS is being compared to BMW M4s and the like now. It drives like a Corvette Stingray and costs $20k less, how can you beat it? As for the actual sales numbers, as it has been discussed before we don't know the profit structure on the Camaro so just because they are selling fewer cars that doesn't mean they are turning a healthy profit.

Taking the Camaro upmarket usually means lower overall sales but higher profits. I was just comparing a Camaro 2SS to an Audi RS5. The Camaro edges it out in performance and the base Audi RS5 starts at $72k. The challenge you run into when you creep into that $45-50k range is that you start to reach the buyers who are willing to pay for status brands. BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Infiniti, Lexus, etc. These status brands also lease out much better that a Camaro. A loaded Camaro 2SS with $0 down is gonna lease out around $600 or more per month. You could lease many luxury sports coupes/sedans with decent performance for $100-200 less per month.

So, the question is what type of buyer actually buys the Camaro? I think the old school muscle car enthusiasts are probably buying the Challengers. They have that big over the top presence when rolling down the road, shaker hoods and great retro looks. Some may argue it is more practical but c'mon no one buys any of these cars for practicality. The Camaro buyer is someone who appreciates the lines of a sportier coupe as well as lighter weight and better handling. IMO, the Mustang appeals to a wider range folks. It strikes a pretty good balance of styling and performance for the non-enthusiast. If a true enthusiast really compares the Mustang GT and Camaro SS it will be glaringly obvious that the Camaro offers a lot more.

For example, the Camaro SS comes with bigger wheels and includes expensive run-flat tires, NPP and MRC options, quick shifting A8 auto or a rev-matching Tremec 6 speed vs. not very well received MT82 manual. The Camaro gets the LT1 engine with direct injection technology making more hp and tq across the entire rpm range. Inside, you get HUD with g-meter, Nav system that can integrate with display and HUD, ventilated leather seats, WiFi LTE, wireless phone charger, blah, blah.

C'mon folks go test drive one. You will love it.

Exactly!!!!!!! I spent at least $6k more (including a $1,500 GM card earnings redemption, so it would have been $7,500 more) to get a Camaro 2SS over a similarly equipped Mustang GT and honestly, I think it's worth every single penny.

That said, not everyone can spend that much more for a Camaro when they may feel the Mustang is "close enough." Pretty sure that's what's been happening in the sales.

However, as said above, quite sure GM is making a nice profit on each unit sold, so I doubt they are crying too much.

[American Legend]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

Think about it this way.. If this is the worst month of the year for them (for some reason), it'll still sell over 60k. That's not enough to kill a car, people..

+1. It's not going anywhere. They just need to drop the price a bit.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

Think about it this way.. If this is the worst month of the year for them (for some reason), it'll still sell over 60k. That's not enough to kill a car, people..

Like I have said in all the other sales threads, the thing that puzzles me the most is the car is superior in everyway to the car it replaced. IMO it should have stayed around the same volume wise, not decline. I also expected it to at least close the gap on the Mustang at least and most certainly not be outsold by an almost 10 year old Challenger that doesn't even offer a drop top version.

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by quikag

Exactly!!!!!!! I spent at least $6k more (including a $1,500 GM card earnings redemption, so it would have been $7,500 more) to get a Camaro 2SS and honestly, I think it's worth every single penny.

That said, not everyone can spend that much more for a Camaro when they may feel the Mustang is "close enough." Pretty sure that's what's been happening in the sales.

However, as said above, pretty sure GM is making a nice profit on each unit sold, so I doubt they are crying too much.

Totally Agree!

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Like I have said in all the other sales threads, the thing that puzzles me the most is the car is superior in everyway to the car it replaced. IMO it should have stayed around the same volume wise, not decline. I also expected it to at least close the gap on the Mustang at least and most certainly not be outsold by an almost 10 year old Challenger that doesn't even offer a drop top version.

Should it have stayed at the same volume? The 5th gen could have been an anomaly due to the nameplate being gone for years and maybe this is just the normal for Camaro.

Mustang sales are also higher than they were for S197.. Former Mustang owners noticing that it's time to upgrade and that new one is worthy of an upgrade?