[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

Good morning. I want to take a moment to say that you and I have gone back and forth on this topic for quite some time now, and during that time you have been polite and kept the discussion centered around the topic, never straying into personal attacks. That's one reason I enjoy our exchanges. I hope I've done the same in my interactions with you.

Now to your data.

First, although on a personal level I trust that you're honestly presenting data, I maintain that you have an inherent professional bias. This is what you do for a living and it would be unwise to post on a public forum anything that isn't in accord with your company's position on EVs.

The funny thing is people in the EV circles that I travel in think I’m a knuckle dragging carbon snorting Neanderthal because I drive a 500+ hp V8 and do race car stuff with my MR2 and because I expect the ICE to be around well beyond our lifetimes. People in my Camaro circles (except my Camaro Club) think I’m a tree hugging ban-the-ICE radical because I hold the position that EVs will evolve to be able to do everything ICE can do except make noise. The truth of who I am lies somewhere squarely in the middle. My company’s position on EV is very similar to my own…”it is what it is”. I don’t often comment on what I want the future to be, I comment on where the data is telling us it will land. I like cars. Doesn’t matter much to me if they are high horsepower V8s (got one) or boosted L4s (got one) or EVs (had one, getting another soon).

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

Second, I respectfully decline to accept data that is not publicly available, nor do I accept an argument that essentially says, I'm an expert, you're not, I have data that's not available to you and I expect you to accept that data as a part of my position.

Hopefully you’ve noticed that I don’t bring out S&P Global data all the time (I could). Mostly when people are hammering hard on information that is demonstrably wrong or when people push to know my source(s) of data. Our data is very much publicly available, but more because so many media presences buy it, analyze it and spin it under their own banner. This issue arose because I said that Tesla Model Y is the best selling vehicle in the world. You called me out on that. Either one of us could have simply googled the term “best selling vehicle in the world 2023” and gotten a full page of articles that would have headlined “Tesla Model Y….”

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

I do believe you're an expert in this field, but as a matter of principle I do not accept arguments that require me to accept something on faith. Cite an independent source, with links, and I'll acknowledge that you're correct. Post pictures of things on your desktop that I can't verify and I won't.

Always your prerogative. As an automotive consultant I on occasion have clients pay me for research and advice and then choose to not believe it. My feelings remain intact. As a consultant my job is to tell clients what we believe is happening and suggest approaches for dealing with it, not just to tell them what they want to hear or what they wish to be true. I have a saying I use with the team that works for me. “You know you’re good at your job when you can tell somebody their baby is ugly without getting punched in the face”. I have yet to get punched in the face.

[Blue 13]

Originally Posted by docwra

Ahhh, but youre still wrong because Wyzz Kydd says so, as are the first 50 hits on google, all he has to do is make a statement and it becomes FACT.

BTW the difference is that Im quoting global car sales, not just USA like the CNBC articles he cited. What other country buys F150's FFS?

It would be funny if it wasnt so sad; by all means make your argument but refuting facts/reality because they dont fit with your beliefs and still go on to claim youre correct is demented.
See earlier comments about wind/solar power not being cheaper, or +50% of EU energy being clean - they are extensively reported and proven facts, you cant claim otherwise and expect to be taken seriously.

FWIW we dont have blackouts in Europe and energy prices are pretty much the same in all countries .......... but how that is relevant to electric car sales I have no idea, youre just coming across as a bit childish TBH.

Anyway, back on topic, EV sales are growing and will continue to grow, as energy gets cheaper they will become even more popular.

This was the 1st hit out of dozens of articles about power issues in Europe dealing with EV’s and BLACKOUTS in the Uk.

https://eandt.theiet.org/content/art...grid-mps-warn/

You’re pretty terrible at debating intelligently.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Thanks for your response. Given Alphabet's history of distorting search results I don't like to rely on Google searches though I do use them myself.

Based on a little research I have to concede that you are correct. The Model Y outsold the F series trucks. I was pretty surprised to see how poorly the F series does outside the US.

[Blue 13]

This one had me rolling!!!

Buy an EV, but we may take control of your home heating to make sure you’re not using too much electricity.

https://www.americanenergyalliance.o...ackouts/?amp=1

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Blue 13

This one had me rolling!!!

Buy an EV, but we may take control of your home heating to make sure you’re not using too much electricity.

https://www.americanenergyalliance.o...ackouts/?amp=1

But I thought our British expert said that energy is abundant and cheap in Europe???

Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it, good and hard. H.L. Mencken.

That's happening now in Great Britain and Europe and I love every minute of it.

[docwra]

Originally Posted by Blue 13

This was the 1st hit out of dozens of articles about power issues in Europe dealing with EV’s and BLACKOUTS in the Uk.

https://eandt.theiet.org/content/art...grid-mps-warn/

You’re pretty terrible at debating intelligently.

Thats an article from July 2021. Want to know how many blackouts we have had since then? Go on, guess - its less than 1 by the way.

It also says "risks blackouts" rather than "will have blackouts".

And heres a factchecked article about it: https://www.nationalgrid.com/gridlin...-fact-checked/

Sorry, who is actually terrible at debating intelligently? Jesus wept.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

My best guess is that C&D may be including F250, F350, F450, F550 in their numbers. My numbers come from my company’s data which is drawn from DMVs and Secretaries of State for all 50 states, all Canadian provinces, and Puerto Rico and is usually the source data for any reporting of vehicle sales and registration.

Correct. C&D and the other sources are jsut listing it as F-Series/Silverado/Ram

so they are including 250/350/450/550

[docwra]

Originally Posted by Blue 13

This one had me rolling!!!

Buy an EV, but we may take control of your home heating to make sure you’re not using too much electricity.

https://www.americanenergyalliance.o...ackouts/?amp=1

a) This is absolute bullshit, theres never been any suggestion of the sort
b) Are you familiar with the American Energy Alliance and their mission statement?
c) Do you know who funds them?
https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/fight...-alliance-aea/

Again, Jesus wept.

[Blue 13]

Jim I will say I also appreciate your ability to discuss topics like an adult. However, we’ve had discussions before and I must say you think very much like the engineer you are. Not a bad thing, but I’m reminded of the character of Howard Wolowitz on Big Bang Theory. Most engineers I’ve met have grand ideas and care about their projects, but they have little real world grasps on the implementation or common sense. I will use your dead solid belief that these active driver safety systems and future autonomous vehicles are all about “saving lives”. I’m sure in your head you think that. I will tell you after 28 years in Law Enforcement people are stupid. Really stupid in some cases. These systems that push the car back over the lines aren’t saving a diabetic that’s grasping to consciousness but for millions of idiots texting and driving. I see it EVERY DAY! Cars meandering from lane line to lane line and the people barely look up from their phone. I do appreciate you saving me from being rear ended by these asshats, but all these things have done is enable a bunch of morons to continue to be a risk on the highway. How about a system that deactivates a cellphone when the car is in motion? That would be nice.

[Blue 13]

Originally Posted by docwra

a) This is absolute bullshit, theres never been any suggestion of the sort
b) Are you familiar with the American Energy Alliance and their mission statement?
c) Do you know who funds them?
https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/fight...-alliance-aea/

Again, Jesus wept.

Yep you’re right and published article after article warning of issues with EV use are all wrong. And gives a f about Jesus? I don’t believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster either. There are real dangers to mass use of EV’s with the current infrastructure. And Switzerland has absolutely talked about controlling personal electric use to mitigate strains on the grid.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...crisis-3888951

Maybe this didn’t happen this winter. I don’t know if it did. Want to guess what will happen with a 40-50% increase in EV charging?

[docwra]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

I question your honesty. Europe and England have an ongoing power problem that is well documented. Energy costs there are significantly higher than in the US and that is also well documented.

There is no supply issue and we have an ongoing war that can be shown to be the cause of the energy price increases. Only said that about 5 times now.

I'll point out your comments that you don't see a connection between energy prices and EV sales

As you keep telling us Energy costs more in Europe than the US.
But we buy more electric vehicles than the US. Probably not anything to do with energy prices then, is it?

The fact that you don't understand the intermittent availability of wind and solar power and the concept of peak loads are additional examples

My best friend is currently installing large scale BESS systems for Drax, Ive supplied engineers to to him for the design. But no, I dont understand.

You drive a gas guzzler and work in arguably one of the most polluting industries on the planet

I actually drive an Audi etron as my daily car.
My Z28 is used mainly for trackdays and hasnt been out of the garage this year yet.

You consistently engage in personal attacks including stating that I'm 'demented' and 'childish'.

Look at the amount of insults youve thrown at me, my country, the cost of power, availability of renewables - any of it.
And none of it, from Tesla sales figures to claiming we have blackouts is actually true.

[genxer]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

I question your honesty. Europe and England have an ongoing power problem that is well documented.

I very much read that as a double entendre.
I don't think they or we are getting much honest democracy. Homeland Security views the cognitive as infrastructure.

I may start looking to see how used Y and 3 compare to things like Equinoxes and Camrys. I have the impression the price gap will narrow toward an equilibrium of sorts. Not a great direction for profit margins. Martinjlm may have perspective here.

Even when prices for green tech decline, I would suspect it's from disadvantaged labor cost, or dumping, from places like China.

China has positioned supply strength between the ore acquiring and final assembly for EVs. Though the recent spending bill has put some hurdles against it for the USA. Tesla appearing increasingly dependent, is sending Shanghai builds to Europe and Canada.

[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

Thanks for your response. Given Alphabet's history of distorting search results I don't like to rely on Google searches though I do use them myself.

Based on a little research I have to concede that you are correct. The Model Y outsold the F series trucks. I was pretty surprised to see how poorly the F series does outside the US.

Yeah I mean it’s pretty rough bc you have to squeeze between buildings and then tiny parking spots. It would get wrecked lol.

I have a f150 and was recently thinking I’d love taking it to Europe if I moved there but prob wouldn’t due to its size

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

Yeah I mean it’s pretty rough bc you have to squeeze between buildings and then tiny parking spots. It would get wrecked lol.

I have a f150 and was recently thinking I’d love taking it to Europe if I moved there but prob wouldn’t due to its size

You could actually practice on some of the older streets of Philadelphia. I had an H2 as an assigned vehicle for a while and went to visit a friend in Philadelphia. There were streets that I could only go down if there were no cars parked on the street. Including his street. Had to walk three blocks to get to his house, and not because there were no parking spots. Because I couldn’t drive down the streets where the spots were.