[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by 2NASSTY

That is exactly what I am saying. The rotating assembly is still spinning in our boosted cars after the rev limiter is hit.

I don't think I can believe that...

It would seem to me that the physics would side with the main rotating assembly.

I have to imagine that, despite the high rpm, there is more kinetic energy in the crank, rods, pistons, and valve train, than there is in supercharger rotors. Therefore, when the rev limited is hit by fuel, timing, or throttle...the supercharger rotors will follow what the crank does, not the other way around.

Or else....how does the A10 change the rpms of the LT4 so quickly as we've seen in the videos? The driver is full throttle...the engine is boosted....but rpms drop from 6500 to 5600 in a tiny fraction of a second...



You've got me thinking, though. Do you have anything to back up your claim (technical articles, like Chevy High Performance, etc)?

[17CamaroZL1]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what happens is, the supercharger continues to pack more air into the engine than what is exhausted out, until the pressure is so high that the valves can't open which bends pushrods or breaks rocker arms. It looks like you'd still have the same amount of air exiting through the exhaust valves to prevent that, unless you lose scavenging during the process, and then it also looks like the blow off valve would relieve any excess pressure on the supercharger side. So it's hard to explain how it happens.

Over revving an engine can also cause bent pushrods if the rotating assembly isn't strong enough to keep out excess stretching/flexing so that the piston doesn't travel too high and therefore hit the valves.

[2NASSTY]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I don't think I can believe that...

You've got me thinking, though. Do you have anything to back up your claim (technical articles, like Chevy High Performance, etc)?

I have pics of bent pushed rods and nicked pistons from valves slapping against my heads. I'm not here to argue with you, just real world experience with no lift shifting this car at 6500 rpm. Rev limiter did not stop the motor and internal assembly from over revving.

Hit the rev limiter several times in my auto CTSV in manual mode. No issues.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by 2NASSTY

I have pics of bent pushed rods and nicked pistons from valves slapping against my heads. I'm not here to argue with you, just real world experience with no lift shifting this car at 6500 rpm. Rev limiter did not stop the motor and internal assembly from over revving.

Hit the rev limiter several times in my auto CTSV in manual mode. No issues.

No, I know you're not arguing with me. Nor am I with you. I'm just real curious, now...

Even in no-lift shift didn't stop the revs, which it should - because it controls the engine speed just the same as PTM, or the other traction management nannies.....the engine should have had a secondary fuel cut off......I guess I just don't understand how it could have over spun and grenaded...with or without no-lift shift...unless the redline on the car was removed, or raised too high.

For instance...the tune on my car, with the GM heads/cam kit for the LS3, displayed a rev limit of 7000 with a fuel cut off of 7100....

Very very curious....

[2NASSTY]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

No, I know you're not arguing with me. Nor am I with you. I'm just real curious, now...

Even in no-lift shift didn't stop the revs, which it should - because it controls the engine speed just the same as PTM, or the other traction management nannies.....the engine should have had a secondary fuel cut off......I guess I just don't understand how it could have over spun and grenaded...with or without no-lift shift...unless the redline on the car was removed, or raised too high.

For instance...the tune on my car, with the GM heads/cam kit for the LS3, displayed a rev limit of 7000 with a fuel cut off of 7100....

Very very curious....

Motor did not grenade Check engine light came on with a misfire code after the pass. Car rode home with an engine tick that got progressively worse.

Car was lightly modded at the time. 2.50 upper pulley, injectors, and a tune. Rev limiter increased to 6700 rpm. Nothing crazy. I was disappointed to say the least. Changed the heads. Put in a cam and never looked back. Have never no lift shifted again

[Jackass]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

Not a flame thread, What Am I missing?

I'm in my 50's, Am I a dinosaur? I had the Chevelles and Camaro’s back in the day. Most were stick. I had a chevelle with the TH400 with a 10 inch converter and all the fancy auto stuff, reverse valve body, all the goodies at the time.

I didn’t have that car for very long, I got so friggin bored driving it.
I see many posts here that guys are waiting for the A10, I just don’t really understand that.

I understand that some people live in big cities and traffic is a horror show, I also understand some people have bad legs, of course you opt for the A10.

I watch all the videos of guys at the drag strip, I must admit, once I see the car is an auto I click it off.

I know the auto is FASTER, but my god, you watch the M6 guys go fast and it’s a thrill to me.

What happened to the driver EXPERIENCE? Your senses? The sounds the shifting? That’s all part of the driver experience.

I don’t know, maybe it’s just me, Anyone could put their foot to the floor and go!

Maybe I’m just a dinosaur……

Well , you are not one just yet , , but like you said , those who live in areas where the traffic is a pest , I'm sure you would understand the reason , specially if one needs to drive far to go to work or whatever reason
Comes that day when you want to just go a a little drive , and looks like everyone is doing the same , you won't be very happy for long if you have to shit that thing every 3 seconds , so , let the car do it for you , and I feel you get that urge to hear the exhaust singing , use the shifters and it will cure you from that flashback

[Stoner]

A couple things I don’t understand on this conversation. First is “so my wife can drive it.” I just don’t get that. None of us were born driving a standard transmission, we took an interest in it and as a result, we learned how. If she has an interest, she will learn. The only exception I would consider is if there is some disability involved.

Second is, people talk about the fast shifts during drag strip and track racing, keeping the engine at peak power. My guess is the vast majorities of these cars will never see the drag strip or race track. Unless you have a hole hell of a lot of disposable income and are able to take a 70k-80k car and beat hell out of it for fun. And even if you are in that income bracket, the majority of us do not have the ability to push the car to anywhere near its limits.

Guess what I am saying is, it’s a personnel preference. We sound silly when we try to make up reasons for buying what we want. I ordered a M6 because its what I wanted, and what I thought would be the most fun for me!

[TenSeven]

Originally Posted by Stoner

...I don’t understand on this conversation...

The debates have been raging for decades and are probably never going to end.

Auto vs Manual
Coors vs Budweiser
Coke vs Pepsi
Ford vs Chevy
1911 vs Glock
Heinz vs Hunts

And on and on and on...

We all have our personal preferences/biases. What amazes me is that some people are nearly militant in their bias and must-have-to-force others to assimilate to their view.

An example is where a user here on Camaro6 went on a rant telling Lethal that his (IMO) very informative YouTube videos regarding Gen6 Camaros were worthless because Lethal's car is an A8.

Really? How very short-sighted and close-minded can you be?

I've owned vehicles with both transmission types.

The manual trans have the fun factor, hands down.

I believe the autos are FAR more practical to drive and with the modern tech, have superior performance.

My "Bias": I no longer have the physical ability to safely drive a manual trans car, but they sure were fun. However, I always preferred autos.

My ZL1 will be an A10.

Now, if only I could figure out the color... HBM, GRT... Arrrgghhh!!!

[17CamaroZL1]

Originally Posted by TenSeven

The debates have been raging for decades and are probably never going to end.


Now, if only I could figure out the color... HBM, GRT... Arrrgghhh!!!

Very well said. What I don't understand is why some people seem to think everyone should choose what they do. Are they insecure about their decision and are looking for reassurance they've made the right one? And why does it always seem to be the manual guys acting like the auto guys are crazy? I almost never see comments the other way around. For me the wife comment, the drag strip comment, the traffic, etc., etc., are all small pieces that all add up to my decision to go auto. The biggest reason is I'm excited about the new tech with 10 gears, lightning fast shifts, super smart auto shifting performance, and instant response from the paddle shifters. I totally understand why some choose a manual and why some choose the auto, but I never think anyone has to choose what I do, or that they should. I'm glad we have the choice. We don't always get that opportunity.

As for the HBM and GRT, I know exactly what you mean. Those are my top 2 colors as well. Good luck with that. Lol!

[KaBoom1701]

I'm a hard core manual guy and I track my current ZL1 but if I bought this next gen ZL1 I would have to go with the A10.

Modern tech has caught up to the point where you cant just match the shifts with a manual if your ultimate goal is speed.

If you want to like to row your own gears then stick with the manual.

[17CamaroZL1]

Right. I love rowing my own as well, but there are just more reasons for me to go with the auto on this one. I can't remember ever being excited to drive an auto, but I am this one.

[Heavymetal454]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I don't think I can believe that...

It would seem to me that the physics would side with the main rotating assembly.

I have to imagine that, despite the high rpm, there is more kinetic energy in the crank, rods, pistons, and valve train, than there is in supercharger rotors. Therefore, when the rev limited is hit by fuel, timing, or throttle...the supercharger rotors will follow what the crank does, not the other way around.

Or else....how does the A10 change the rpms of the LT4 so quickly as we've seen in the videos? The driver is full throttle...the engine is boosted....but rpms drop from 6500 to 5600 in a tiny fraction of a second...



You've got me thinking, though. Do you have anything to back up your claim (technical articles, like Chevy High Performance, etc)?

Let's not forget this is a supercharger driven by a serpentine belt, not a gilmer belt. In layman terms the supercharger rpm vs the crank aren't 1:1. Even if the pulley was designed for that the crank will continue rotating while the supercharger slips. In a typical roots blower installation the belt is clogged or a toothed belt. In those scenarios the belt cannot slip so that is when you have air pressures that can exceed what the motor will accept. That is why you see explosions in many professional categories. NHRA has burst panels to alleviate that condition. It's not applicable to the ZL1 at all.

[Heavymetal454]

Originally Posted by 17CamaroZL1

Very well said. What I don't understand is why some people seem to think everyone should choose what they do. Are they insecure about their decision and are looking for reassurance they've made the right one? And why does it always seem to be the manual guys acting like the auto guys are crazy? I almost never see comments the other way around. For me the wife comment, the drag strip comment, the traffic, etc., etc., are all small pieces that all add up to my decision to go auto. The biggest reason is I'm excited about the new tech with 10 gears, lightning fast shifts, super smart auto shifting performance, and instant response from the paddle shifters. I totally understand why some choose a manual and why some choose the auto, but I never think anyone has to choose what I do, or that they should. I'm glad we have the choice. We don't always get that opportunity.

As for the HBM and GRT, I know exactly what you mean. Those are my top 2 colors as well. Good luck with that. Lol!

The whole manual vs auto debate needs to stop. Which is better, vanilla or chocolate? Stop already. Buy what you want and don't tell others what to do. Simple.

By the way Krypton Green is the best! Lol

[17CamaroZL1]

Originally Posted by Heavymetal454

The whole manual vs auto debate needs to stop. Which is better, vanilla or chocolate? Stop already. Buy what you want and don't tell others what to do. Simple.

By the way Krypton Green is the best! Lol

Agree with your first point, but not the last. Hyper Blue is the fastest. I mean, it's right in the name. It has hyper drive! Lol!