December 2012 Camaro Sales and Production Figures (and vs. Mustang & Challenger)

[lurker]

Originally Posted by doc7000

...that with incentives and I don't think that the picture looks that good for the Mustang. It means that even with at times $7,000 on the hood of the Mustang in 2011 they only managed to sell 54,119 of them to people.

If you're talking about rebates when you say 'on the hood', I'm not sure $7,000 is correct. In fact, I'd be surprised if it's not at least twice as much as was available on either the V6 or GT in any kind of widespread availability. Maybe combined with 'dealer reduction' in a targeted market...

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by doc7000

I dont think anyone or at least most people do nor begrudge someone for having money. However are economic problems stem from too much money in the hands of two few and a lack of any political will to do anything about. The longer nothing is done the worse things will get economically.

Well I can't comment on that without getting into politics so let's just drop the subject and get back to the real topic. Camaro Sales.

[doc7000]

Originally Posted by lurker

If you're talking about rebates when you say 'on the hood', I'm not sure $7,000 is correct. In fact, I'd be surprised if it's not at least twice as much as was available on either the V6 or GT in any kind of widespread availability. Maybe combined with 'dealer reduction' in a targeted market...

As always incentives and rebates differ from region to region. At the local dodge dealer you could get a challenger for $6,000 off.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by doc7000

As always incentives and rebates differ from region to region. At the local dodge dealer you could get a challenger for $6,000 off.

Here Mustang incentives are at $2000, Camaros are $500. I just checked the websites.

[Don57]

Originally Posted by NVmyZL1

What tools/laws are available to the rich that are not available to anyone else is smart enough to take advantage of them? You act as if people woke up one day and said, "Hey, somebody stole my money!"

They are able to buy legislation which favors their businesses. The 1979 amendment to the Federal Election Campaign Act made it possible for corporations to spend basically unlimited amounts of money to influence politicians (this is the "soft money" -- unregulated money --you hear about at election time).

This change in election financing is probably the root cause of the disparity between the 99% and the 1% which has been growing since then, and it's this growing disparity which has ruined the economy.

Originally Posted by NVmyZL1

It's my experience and opinion that the rich get richer because they know how to make and handle their money. In most cases, parents who don't know how to handle money pass their bad habits and perceptions of personal finance on to their children and the cycle begins anew.

It sounds like you're talking about regular rich people, and it's this misunderstanding that the ultra rich use to trick people into fighting against their own best interests (e.g. being against the Occupy movement, voting for certain politicians, etc). Regular rich people are not the problem. It's the ultra rich people who don't really live in the same world you or I do that are the problem.

[Don57]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

So 3,800,000 people have more effect on the economy than 308,000,000 people do. Wow...

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Of that 3,800,000 people, a few thousand probably have more of an effect on the economy than the rest do.

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Some people just are so eager to blame the wealthy for everything.

I don't think you're thinking of the same kind of "wealthy" that we're talking about. Being able to invest a million dollars is peanuts to the kind of wealthy people we're talking about. These are not normal people you ever see on the street or in the grocery store or whatever; they live in a different world from us.

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Show me the figures that show they have 50% of the wealth....

Sure. See the attached images, or read up on the details here. The last image shows how wrong they typical person's estimation of the distribution of wealth in the US is (which is probably why so many people don't realize how bad the problem is).

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Don57

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Of that 3,800,000 people, a few thousand probably have more of an effect on the economy than the rest do.


I don't think you're thinking of the same kind of "wealthy" that we're talking about. Being able to invest a million dollars is peanuts to the kind of wealthy people we're talking about. These are not normal people you ever see on the street or in the grocery store or whatever; they live in a different world from us.


Sure. See the attached images, or read up on the details here. The last image shows how wrong they typical person's estimation of the distribution of wealth in the US is (which is probably why so many people don't realize how bad the problem is).

My example of investing $1,000 and $1,000,000 was just an illustration to show that the more money you have the more you can make. Multiply that into the billions instead of millions and the gap gets much larger quicker...

So what do you propose to do to make this problem go away?
Remember now the ultra wealthy own 61% of the business equity in this country. To my knowledge not anything that can be done legally or constitutionally to redistribute the wealth. And if it was done what affect would this have on the business world?

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by doc7000

So really it was 54,119 sales for the Mustang and 78,861 sales for the Camaro (retail sales only). The Mustang had 21.9% fleet sales compared to 8.8% fleet for the Camaro, combine that with incentives and I don't think that the picture looks that good for the Mustang.

I believe you. There must be 10,000 2012 V6 Mustang convertibles circling the island of Kauai thanks to Avis. I've never seen more Mustangs in all my life. Only saw 2 Camaro's all week.

Originally Posted by Fish-man

interesting data. wonder what took place in 79 to cause that?

I was born. True story.

Originally Posted by mattsfirstSS

You clearly have no concept of what its like to be born poor...

must be nice to imagine that everyone actually has the same opportunities and not have to face reality.

I grew up in a town of 300 people in rural Oklahoma. Mom would get left over scraps of fabric from neighbors and sew shorts and shirts for me because Wal-Mart clothes were too expensive. I still laugh when I look at my school pictures (she was no seamstress) We grew our vegetables in the back yard and hunted for our meat because the grocery store was too expensive.

I studied hard and put myself through school working part-time jobs. Earned 3 degrees in 11 years. My first job landed me six figures at the age of 28. I earn more in one year than my parents did in 5. No one handed me opportunities, I went and made them. I'm not in the top 1%...yet But in one generation I jumped out of the bottom 20%.

[mattsfirstSS]

Originally Posted by NVmyZL1

You would be wrong. My dad had a small farm and my mother stayed at home to raise my sisters and I. If we got clothes that were not hand be downs, they were the cheapest you could find. There was a roof over our head and we were fed, but there was nothing left over for anything that was not a necessity.

When I was old enough to drive, I did not have my own car, I shared time with my older sister and only when the car was not being used by my parents. I worked odd jobs to pay for gas that I used. I learned that if you want something, you have to plan for it and be willing to sacrifice other things to get there.

My parents were adamant that I get an education, however, so with their guidance I made good grades in school. Unfortunately, because neither of my parents had the opportunity to attend college, I had no idea how to apply for scholarships and I had no savings to speak of. Rather than take out loans to pay for school, I worked all summer to save enough to pay tuition at a local state college and pick up a 20-year old car for $1500. I carried a 16 credit hour load, worked two jobs when I was not in class and shared an apartment with two other people. After two semesters, I realized I could not continue to do this without having my grades suffer, so I elected to give up four years of my life to the military in exchange for a $5000 (before taxes) signing bonus, the G.I. Bill and the Army College Fund.

Unlike most of the people I served with, who spent most of their off-duty time boozing, chasing women and blowing what little money the military paid us (that's not to say I didn't do this as well, just not to the same degree!) I tried to take advantage of the on-post educational offerings and earn college credits through class work and CLEP programs.

After getting out in June, I returned home and lived with my parents until that fall when I re-enrolled in college, carried the same 16 credit hour load and worked part-time. (Though considerably less hours than what I had done previously, thanks to the GIB and ACF). In the first semester of my junior year, my dad was in an accident that left him hospitalized, so I dropped out of school to return home and run the farm until he was back on his feet. About eight months later, I returned to my college town with the intent to reenroll to school that fall, and took an hourly job to pay he bills through the summer. However, that summer is when I met the person who would become my wife about a year later. I elected to postpone going back to school and continued working my $17k/year job. Being young and in love, we decided to get married in June of the following year. (In hindsight, we probably should have waited.) In March of that year (3 months before our wedding), I'd hit my limit with my boss at my job, and I resigned. I ended up working for a local temp agency until I could find something more stable.

In June, we had our wedding done with a $1500 budget (See, her family was poor, too) including her dress, flowers and pictures. We rented a 900sq ft duplex to live in and our car was the same one I had bought and had been driving since my freshman year of college. Here is where thing really got interesting. My work ethic must have impressed someone at the company I was doing $8/hr data entry work for, because they offered me a full time position at $25k salary and a medical/dental plan. Faced with the obligations I had and a severe lack of job skills up to that point, I accepted. Three months later, despite the use of contraception, my wife informed me that she was pregnant. Her pregnancy was difficult, so she was forced to quit working in her first trimester, leaving me as the sole income earner.

Fortunately, the start-up company I had chosen to work for had found a niche which allowed it to grow quickly and with a lot of hard work and long hours spent learning the business, I was afforded the opportunity to grow along with it. I was with them for 14 years before they were sold to a fortune 50 company, and now I am still there under the new corporate management. Of my peers, I am the only one without at least a Bachelor's degree and I have been able to keep my job through multiple downsizings and layoffs.

Why did I type all this out? Because I am tired of hearing people talk about how impossible it is for someone who's born economically disadvantaged to change things for the better. You can, you just have to be willing to make sacrifices to get there. You might have to move, you might have to swallow your pride. it just depends on what you are willing to do.

When I started working for this company, some of my bosses were already making hundreds of thousands (if not seven figures) while they were paying me $25k a year. Instead of bitching about it and envying their success, I chose to learn things from them that might help me reach a similar level of income at some point in the future. Today, many years later, I still do not have any degree, work at an executive level of a fortune 50 company and make 10 times what I earned when I started there.

BTW, that 20 year old car I bought when I was 17 is still in my garage, but no longer my daily driver.

figured I would give you a hand so you could stop patting yourself on the back for going from modest to middle class

[mattsfirstSS]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

I believe you. There must be 10,000 2012 V6 Mustang convertibles circling the island of Kauai thanks to Avis. I've never seen more Mustangs in all my life. Only saw 2 Camaro's all week.



I was born. True story.



I grew up in a town of 300 people in rural Oklahoma. Mom would get left over scraps of fabric from neighbors and sew shorts and shirts for me because Wal-Mart clothes were too expensive. I still laugh when I look at my school pictures (she was no seamstress) We grew our vegetables in the back yard and hunted for our meat because the grocery store was too expensive.

I studied hard and put myself through school working part-time jobs. Earned 3 degrees in 11 years. My first job landed me six figures at the age of 28. I earn more in one year than my parents did in 5. No one handed me opportunities, I went and made them. I'm not in the top 1%...yet But in one generation I jumped out of the bottom 20%.

guess you needed one too.

you ARE middle class, so is the other guy, so am I, and poor is subjective apparently...

You are all proving my point, it takes a lot of work and is rare to become a one percenter if you are born with even a modest life...

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by mattsfirstSS

You clearly have no concept of what its like to be born poor...

must be nice to imagine that everyone actually has the same opportunities and not have to face reality.

Back to your original statement, yes, many of us know what it's like to be born poor. Yes, everyone has opportunities to better themselves. The 1% were not created out of thin air. Quit with the woe is me crap.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by mattsfirstSS

:

You are all proving my point, it takes a lot of work and is rare to become a one percenter if you are born with even a modest life...

So what is wrong with hard work? Bill Gates did it.....
Why do you have to make fun of people that have actually risen up from being in the lower income bracket to middle or upper middle class? You should be ashamed of yourself. They are proud of what they have accomplished and you should be too.

[IrocJack]

[mattsfirstSS]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

So what is wrong with hard work? Bill Gates did it.....
Why do you have to make fun of people that have actually risen up from being in the lower income bracket to middle or upper middle class? You should be ashamed of yourself. They are proud of what they have accomplished and you should be too.

Nothing is wrong with hard work, holy crap. I never said there was anything wrong with it. And I'm not in here on the internet throwing out my life story for some props. Look at me . Im proud of what I have accomplished just dont care if anyone else knows about it. Wasnt making fun of their hard work and "rise" just for patting themselves on the back in a forum.

Look how you regard their rise from lower middle to middle or upper middle as a meteoric rise from the bottom ranks to the top, imagine that times 100 for going from utterly destitute to one percent, it just "cant" happen. Meaning the majority of it is where you are born and to whom with some exception but not much. Why is this simple idea sticking in so many craws?