[Thor142]

Originally Posted by merlin803

Oh yay! LOL

Just copy and paste these 50+ pages into the new thread

Thats actually a good idea. Just make gen 6 sales figures a sticky and merge all of these. Hardly anyone reads stickys anyway and maybe this debate will die off lol.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Thor142

Thats actually a good idea. Just make gen 6 sales figures a sticky and merge all of these. Hardly anyone reads stickys anyway and maybe this debate will die off lol.

And hardly anyone goes back to read the previous 50+ pages lol.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

Where did you get the pricing for the ZL1?

The Camaro and the Corvette are in two separate classes, not only performance is used to determine the category of a car.

If the Ford Focus RT, smokes two trims of Mustangs, does Ford drop those two trims of Mustangs?

Not the same, because (a) the Focus is a hot hatch, and (b) the Focus is a better performer and more expensive than the two lower Mustang trim level. The Corvette and camaro don't have that dynamic. Nice try tho.

I make $225k+ a year and would never own a German car or bother with an over priced Lexus or Acura. I do want a Corvette, but not if it's second tier to its own little brother or sister for the same $. Besides looking better, what does it really offer then? It loses it's value to me. Maybe I'll just save my $ and just invest in another property if that's the case.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Pretty simple that its a Corvette. To some people, myself included the Corvette is a special car. I could care less if any Camaro is faster, I would rather have the Corvette.

What so special about the Corvette if it gets outperformed for cheaper than it's own sibling? Looks better makes it special? I wouldn't mind if the performance was below if it was also priced below, but when it's not, it loses it's point to me.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Well, coming from someone who wouldn't have a Gen5 but intended to buy one until I saw the quality, Chevy won me over with the Gen6 and I bought a 2SS. To me they moved it up market which it desperately needed and sold me on it.

I wouldn't own a Vette personally. The stigma that goes with them is just no bueno. I've driven friends' Z06 models and honestly didn't like them at all, but that's all personal preference.

I'm not a BMW fan, but the M series are pretty special. I just don't like their lack of durability. I would LOVE a Porche, but not the girlie boxter, one of the good ones LOL.

I find it interesting that folks think a $36K nicely equipped V6 Camaro is expensive. A nicely equipped 370z is over $40K and is also a V6.

I'll type it one last time. None of this matters. It's merely about BRAND PERCEPTION and like Number3 typed above, Chevy has a long wait to go to be taken seriously against the likes of BMW and Audi to name a few. If you consider what that average wages in this country have done conpaired to car prices. 36k for a V6 Camaro is nuts. So is the cost of the 370Z. But that's another thread.
I don't think price is why this car is tanking in the sales numbers though. I thing part of it is GM's plan with the other part being the fact that the GEN5 car got most of the buyers looking for this type of car. The quality concerns out of the box didn't help either. I know. I know. None of you have had issues and your cars are perfect. Well, many folks that bought them weren't and aren't. That gets around.

I got burnt with first years issues with my first GEN5. Im not going down that road again.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I'm glad Number3 gets what I was driving out. That's why I said that it would not matter what Chevy builds. It's still just a Chevy to a luxury car buyer. So why try and place the Camaro there? Leave it the poor mans Vette as it always was.

Originally Posted by hotlap

Could you give an example of a Chevy "placed" to compete with a "luxury" car? Spec and MSRP of competing models

There is none!

[Speedy1975]

I found this interesting in the Ford article:

That view stands in contrast with General Motors, which last week posted record earnings and promised better times ahead.

Originally Posted by motorhead

I know. I know. None of you have had issues and your cars are perfect. Well, many folks that bought them weren't and aren't. That gets around.

I got burnt with first years issues with my first GEN5. Im not going down that road again.

Maybe folks buying BMWs and Audis aren't cross shopping Camaro. Makes sense, but I didn't cross shop a BMW or Audi when I was looking to replace my 370Z, so I did cross shop Mustang and Camaro though.

I have, and I think am still having, issues with the MyLink system in my 2SS. I've had it to the dealer twice already and the last time it acted up it drained the battery dead flat. So no, you won't find a fanboy here saying it's all blue skies and unicorns.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by merlin803

Hmm, and GM's profits have exceeded expectations...maybe they know what they are doing and the sky isn't falling...

http://www.rttnews.com/2671532/gm-q2...-stock-up.aspx

Keep pumping out those low profit fleet Mustangs.....but hey your sales numbers are way up, so at least you have that...

Somehow I think this ^^^, and the quote below from the other, will temper the July discussion.

Ford's second-quarter profits were dented by expensive incentives to lure customers -- an industrywide trend the company believes will continue.

"Sales are still at healthy levels overall, but the competitive environment has increased as retail demand has weakened," Fields said.

That view stands in contrast with General Motors, which last week posted record earnings and promised better times ahead.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/f...day-in-5-years

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

Not the same, because (a) the Focus is a hot hatch, and (b) the Focus is a better performer and more expensive than the two lower Mustang trim level. The Corvette and camaro don't have that dynamic. Nice try tho.

I make $225k+ a year and would never own a German car or bother with an over priced Lexus or Acura. I do want a Corvette, but not if it's second tier to its own little brother or sister for the same $. Besides looking better, what does it really offer then? It loses it's value to me. Maybe I'll just save my $ and just invest in another property if that's the case.

You could get the Z06, it's faster than most cars made. Also just a heads up, your salary means nothing to anyone except yourself. Thanks for sharing

[Speedy1975]

I still don't get why people think the V6 is too expensive? I try to stick to facts, and I just hit up Edmunds (quick and easy) to do a price comparison. The only car in a V6 that's really cheaper in this segment is the Mustang. If everyone is basing how much the Camaro should cost on how much a V6 Mustang is, maybe you should buy a Mustang. It was about $7K cheaper give or take based on options, but it's also missing A BUNCH of stuff that the Camaro has like 8 speed auto etc. The 370Z as I've stated is mid 40s for one that's got the goodies, Challenger V6 is $32K - $33K with any goodies on it. Hell a Hyundai Genesis Coupe is $34K! You can option a V6 Camaro to the moon and get it over $40K with all the stuff Chevy has available, but if you keep it sensible the one I just put together was $33K, and that's with quite a few options selected. I think the difference is Chevy has a boat load of options and the others do not. Nice cars cost money folks.

[Techn9cian805]

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

You could get the Z06, it's faster than most cars made. Also just a heads up, your salary means nothing to anyone except yourself. Thanks for sharing

jealous? I wont lie, I am. if I was making that much, I'd be in a Z06 myself, but only after their stupid overheating issues get resolved...
ps: for all we know, he's lying about his $$$$.....

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

What so special about the Corvette if it gets outperformed for cheaper than it's own sibling? Looks better makes it special? I wouldn't mind if the performance was below if it was also priced below, but when it's not, it loses it's point to me.

Simple its a Corvette and not a Camaro. The looks are one reason, its a different class of car, the removable targa top, the history, the appeal. Maybe that's just me. A Camaro will never have the appeal of a Corvette to me. Given the choice between the two, I am taking that Corvette every time. Doesn't matter if the 1LE can get around a track a few tenths or seconds faster it's not a Corvette and IMO that doesn't take anything away from the Vette.

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

I still don't get why people think the V6 is too expensive? I try to stick to facts, and I just hit up Edmunds (quick and easy) to do a price comparison. The only car in a V6 that's really cheaper in this segment is the Mustang. If everyone is basing how much the Camaro should cost on how much a V6 Mustang is, maybe you should buy a Mustang. It was about $7K cheaper give or take based on options, but it's also missing A BUNCH of stuff that the Camaro has like 8 speed auto etc. The 370Z as I've stated is mid 40s for one that's got the goodies, Challenger V6 is $32K - $33K with any goodies on it. Hell a Hyundai Genesis Coupe is $34K! You can option a V6 Camaro to the moon and get it over $40K with all the stuff Chevy has available, but if you keep it sensible the one I just put together was $33K, and that's with quite a few options selected. I think the difference is Chevy has a boat load of options and the others do not. Nice cars cost money folks.

I think part of it is sticker shock. Also when you see the lower trims optioned higher than the base SS that can create some sticker shock. And like I said earlier, despite how much everyone wants to say the Camaro has gone up market, the fact they have the turbo 4 and V6 model still shows they want to compete against mustang. Yes they offer some stuff you cant get on the mustang but when you option them similarly the Camaro costs more and it looks like that is all people care about.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

I still don't get why people think the V6 is too expensive? I try to stick to facts, and I just hit up Edmunds (quick and easy) to do a price comparison. The only car in a V6 that's really cheaper in this segment is the Mustang. If everyone is basing how much the Camaro should cost on how much a V6 Mustang is, maybe you should buy a Mustang. It was about $7K cheaper give or take based on options, but it's also missing A BUNCH of stuff that the Camaro has like 8 speed auto etc. The 370Z as I've stated is mid 40s for one that's got the goodies, Challenger V6 is $32K - $33K with any goodies on it. Hell a Hyundai Genesis Coupe is $34K! You can option a V6 Camaro to the moon and get it over $40K with all the stuff Chevy has available, but if you keep it sensible the one I just put together was $33K, and that's with quite a few options selected. I think the difference is Chevy has a boat load of options and the others do not. Nice cars cost money folks.

MSRP for a new 1LT Cruze is in the low $20,000 range. Times change, prices go up on all cars.

If I wasn't fortunate enough to have an SS and my max budget was in the low $30,000 range, I would have the V6, and I would be thrilled with it compared to the other cars in that price range that I could get.

[Speedy1975]

I tried to option a V6 Mustang like a Camaro and honestly had a pretty hard time matching up the options. I had to dumb down the Camaro a lot to match the optioned Mustang when I was on Edmunds. Maybe I missed a tick box or two on the Mustang but I don't think so. I only saw a 6 speed auto and only 18" wheels for starters. Looks to me the difference is about the same as the V8 offering from each which is like $3K(ish). To me if that makes or breaks buying the car you want, hold off and save up more down payment, but I'm patient for things I really want and understand some are not.

I'm blessed enough to be able to get just about any car in this segment and specifically picked the Camaro because it ticked all the boxes for me. However if I couldn't afford one and really wanted it, I'd have just waited for a used one to show up and save $10K.