[ChefBorOzzy]

Weird.. Everyone says all season tires fail to do anything well, but you say that summer tires don't do anything well.

I can tell you the grip with summer tires for me has been much better when it's warm out or warm and raining than with all seasons.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

Real-world performance matters, and when it comes to real-world performance, good all seasons are going to smoke a summer only tire.

No they won't. I don't know what sort of "real-world driving" you do...but the responsiveness, and grip of my Goodyear Eagle's FAAAARRRR outperforms other tires I've had on the car. And I notice it as slow as parking lot speeds. Tires are such a huge factor in how a car feels on the road.

The "mythical test results" you refer to are real, measurable, FEEL-"able" numbers. I'm very confused why you think the advertised abilities aren't real world? For example: The tires are a very important reason the 1LE package makes the SS feel completely different. It's the reason I bought one, and why I enjoy driving it so much on the track. If it had all-seasons? The car would fall flat on its face, and nobody would have bought it, or raved about it.

If people are in the market for a high-performance vehicle...they should also be aware of the fact that the entire vehicle is high performance, including the tires. If you live in an area where it is going to be driven in the cold or snowy climate - budget to buy snow tires...Chevy tested the car under such conditions and determined it worked really well.

I did. And to be honest, I have never had an issue in the rain, or the cold on track/summer tires...I have Eagle F1 G:2s, and I love them. Going to replace them with new ones in a few weeks actually. And I drive these things in as low as 35 degrees. Never cracked...I haven't slipped off the edge of the earth, either. See, there's this thing in between my ears that helps me adjust my driving style to the conditions of the road..........Meanwhile, on the track, I can keep up with just about anything I've encountered thanks to the grip these things provide. And the steering response/handling is miraculous.

Fact of the matter is this, and you don't have to like it - but I disagree with your general tone on summer tires - This is a moderate-volume, specialty vehicle with performance as the primary goal, not a Cruze or a Malibu. They are designed to be fast, they are marketed to be fast, and they are purchased - because the buyer expects fast. In order to achieve the levels of performance the machines are capable of - the vehicles NEED summer tires. All-season rubber compounds and tread patterns used to achieve mediocre snow and cold drivability just can't support the higher handling, acceleration, or braking capabilities of the machine. It's not just Chevy or Camaro: find one high-performance car sold today on factory all-season tires.

If you put a compromising all-season tire on a high-performance vehicle, you are compromising the abilities of the car, and it will drive and feel significantly slower and sloppier than it was designed to feel. In some cases, such as hard braking...ill-matched tires can cause an unsafe situation.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

Treadwear on the PZero's on these cars are abysmal. Remember, these cars are large and heavy with wide rims, so they chew through the tires quickly. They also cannot be rotated because they are staggered. PZero's are typically chewed through in 15,000-20,000 miles on these cars.

A Jetta also has narrow tires with front wheel drive. These are staggered 245/275 widths with rear wheel drive. The wider the tire, the worse they tend to perform in wet, cold and snow. The all-season performance of a Camaro on PZero's is nothing short of terrible. It will be hard to find a worse tire for the car...except for course for the F1's! There are reports of the F1's cracking just driving around in <40 degree temps. Not doing anything stupid or dangerous. Just cruising on the highway or driving around town in perfectly dry, clear, <40 degree temps.

Staggered explains it, I've not heard of many staggered setups lasting a long time, particularly on a powerful RWD car. Wider tires definite do make an impact in wet performance, but mainly due to the ruts in the road not being as wild as that 275. I dealt with the same problem in my '99 SS, however the BFG KDW tires I bought for it had excellent traction in the wet....on a smooth road I worked in tire installation for a major retailer for 3 years. During that time I came to hate Goodyear/Dunlop tires. They consistently under-performed and wore out prematurely compared to Michelin/BFG from the real world driving I saw from the average customer. We would almost never get a return customer for Goodyear's....that says something right there.


FYI. Found the Pzeros I had on my Jetta, all season high performance. Explains my difference experience now.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....I&autoModClar=

[Gcashwell]

Originally Posted by rayhawk

Well, if you have 100 machines running the simulations simultaneously, then you would divide that time by 100. I doubt they made up the numbers.

It was probably more like several thousand processors running the simulations.

[Jeb114]

[QUOTE=Mr. Wyndham;8358687]No they won't. I don't know what sort of "real-world driving" you do...but the responsiveness, and grip of my Goodyear Eagle's FAAAARRRR outperforms other tires I've had on the car. And I notice it as slow as parking lot speeds. Tires are such a huge factor in how a car feels on the road.

You my friend are dead wrong. Summer only tires are dangerous. 99% of the people who buy these cars cannot drive at the level of the capability of this car, and 90% of these cars are DD. But they are forced to deal with the danger of these tires. Real world is not 80 degrees and sunny every day for a year. I purchased the car in November and in the 60 mile drive home I came close to killing myself and my wife in the car twice. The next day I was on the phone with the dealer and Chevy telling them how stupid to have these Goodyear g2's tires on cars that are in cold climates. 10 Minutes after that I replaced the tires, they are still behind the shed with 65 miles on them. How expensive these cars are there should be an option for All-seasons so people who buy the car do not have to come up with another $1000. for tires. And ChocoTaco369 is right they did it for a stupid magazine test.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Doesn't the regular SS come with all seasons? If you're worried about traction with summer tires in the cold, don't opt for a ZL1 or an SS with the performance package.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Maybe they come with summer tires as well.. But all seasons suck in snow on a rwd as well.. But I guess they would be better in dry. I've driven my Mustang in lower temperatures and it's fine, but they are like ice pucks. No traction. This was around 20 degrees.

If it's your only car, I'd recommend snow tires anyway. All seasons? No thanks.

[2015 New Corvette]

I am grateful they come as summer only standard. But then I live in a place that rarely rains, never snows, and is never below 40 degrees during the day (and only dips below that once or twice a year at night).

I agree with the posters about giving people options. I see the main person posting about this is from Phili, and the guy agreeing with him is from NJ. If I lived in those places I'd sure want an option to have a more well rounded tire come on the car.

[LesserO2Evils]

Originally Posted by Jeb114

You my friend are dead wrong. Summer only tires are dangerous. 99% of the people who buy these cars cannot drive at the level of the capability of this car, and 90% of these cars are DD. But they are forced to deal with the danger of these tires. Real world is not 80 degrees and sunny every day for a year. I purchased the car in November and in the 60 mile drive home I came close to killing myself and my wife in the car twice. The next day I was on the phone with the dealer and Chevy telling them how stupid to have these Goodyear g2's tires on cars that are in cold climates. 10 Minutes after that I replaced the tires, they are still behind the shed with 65 miles on them. How expensive these cars are there should be an option for All-seasons so people who buy the car do not have to come up with another $1000. for tires. And ChocoTaco369 is right they did it for a stupid magazine test.

Performance car-performance tire. You seem to be under the impression that, like yourself, everyone lives where it snows. Just as many people live in "more agreeable" climates as those that live in more adverse(Northern) areas. That being said, the problem here is not equipping a car with a broad spectrum tire. The Camaro is not a "broad spectrum" car. Particularly the HiPo models. It is a specific car with a specific purpose. Such purpose completely justifies a specific tire- a Summer tire. Sounds like you are using the wrong tool for the job. Summer tires are not dangerous. Inept driving(or drivers) is the problem. I have taken 200mi roadtrips on Summer tires, in pouring rain, w/600rwhp. I wouldnt have it any other way. If I chose to live somewhere where weather was an issue Id either reconsider my vehicle choice or out of pocket new tires acknowledging that I am more exception than rule. Its a performance car. It deserves the appropriate tire.

[IOMike]

^^^ I agree with this.

If you insist on buying a high performance version of a performance car and driving in the winter, you NEED SNOW TIRES. "Sporty" all seasons are garbage in the winter anyways

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

No they won't. I don't know what sort of "real-world driving" you do...but the responsiveness, and grip of my Goodyear Eagle's FAAAARRRR outperforms other tires I've had on the car. And I notice it as slow as parking lot speeds. Tires are such a huge factor in how a car feels on the road.

The "mythical test results" you refer to are real, measurable, FEEL-"able" numbers. I'm very confused why you think the advertised abilities aren't real world? For example: The tires are a very important reason the 1LE package makes the SS feel completely different. It's the reason I bought one, and why I enjoy driving it so much on the track. If it had all-seasons? The car would fall flat on its face, and nobody would have bought it, or raved about it.

If people are in the market for a high-performance vehicle...they should also be aware of the fact that the entire vehicle is high performance, including the tires. If you live in an area where it is going to be driven in the cold or snowy climate - budget to buy snow tires...Chevy tested the car under such conditions and determined it worked really well.

I did. And to be honest, I have never had an issue in the rain, or the cold on track/summer tires...I have Eagle F1 G:2s, and I love them. Going to replace them with new ones in a few weeks actually. And I drive these things in as low as 35 degrees. Never cracked...I haven't slipped off the edge of the earth, either. See, there's this thing in between my ears that helps me adjust my driving style to the conditions of the road..........Meanwhile, on the track, I can keep up with just about anything I've encountered thanks to the grip these things provide. And the steering response/handling is miraculous.

Fact of the matter is this, and you don't have to like it - but I disagree with your general tone on summer tires - This is a moderate-volume, specialty vehicle with performance as the primary goal, not a Cruze or a Malibu. They are designed to be fast, they are marketed to be fast, and they are purchased - because the buyer expects fast. In order to achieve the levels of performance the machines are capable of - the vehicles NEED summer tires. All-season rubber compounds and tread patterns used to achieve mediocre snow and cold drivability just can't support the higher handling, acceleration, or braking capabilities of the machine. It's not just Chevy or Camaro: find one high-performance car sold today on factory all-season tires.

If you put a compromising all-season tire on a high-performance vehicle, you are compromising the abilities of the car, and it will drive and feel significantly slower and sloppier than it was designed to feel. In some cases, such as hard braking...ill-matched tires can cause an unsafe situation.

Right On.

[DenverTaco07]

I use retreads.

Studies have found they are THE BEST performers out there.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Jeb114

You my friend are dead wrong. Summer only tires are dangerous. 99% of the people who buy these cars cannot drive at the level of the capability of this car, and 90% of these cars are DD. But they are forced to deal with the danger of these tires. Real world is not 80 degrees and sunny every day for a year. I purchased the car in November and in the 60 mile drive home I came close to killing myself and my wife in the car twice. The next day I was on the phone with the dealer and Chevy telling them how stupid to have these Goodyear g2's tires on cars that are in cold climates. 10 Minutes after that I replaced the tires, they are still behind the shed with 65 miles on them. How expensive these cars are there should be an option for All-seasons so people who buy the car do not have to come up with another $1000. for tires. And ChocoTaco369 is right they did it for a stupid magazine test.

Real world for me is a temperature range of 35º-95º, 50% rain/50% dry days, and 4 months out of the year the roads are covered with snow and ice. Twice a year, I participate in a HPDE. I have driven on Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar G:2 tires (apparently, the worst tire in the world ) for the past 3 years, and never....EVER...had a problem. Except, I once hydroplaned in very heavy rain at 70mph on nearly bald tires. Did the same thing in my Cobalt with skinny all-seasons years ago. This all goes back to a concept called "adjust driving for the conditions".

So, sorry - I don't agree at all with the assertion that summer tires are "dangerous", at all. I think that's a gross over-exaggeration. In fact, I'd claim quite the opposite with regards to a car that deserves them. Shorter braking distances, and increased handling capability can save lives and property...as higher performance vehicles can perform emergency maneuvers with much more confidence with the proper tires.

That said - I agree that, perhaps, they could have offered an option of tire for those who wanted.

But I also understand that the engineers knew a lesser tire would have decreased the performance of the car, and chose not to compromise.

[suzook]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

Treadwear on the PZero's on these cars are abysmal. Remember, these cars are large and heavy with wide rims, so they chew through the tires quickly. They also cannot be rotated because they are staggered. PZero's are typically chewed through in 15,000-20,000 miles on these cars.

A Jetta also has narrow tires with front wheel drive. These are staggered 245/275 widths with rear wheel drive. The wider the tire, the worse they tend to perform in wet, cold and snow. The all-season performance of a Camaro on PZero's is nothing short of terrible. It will be hard to find a worse tire for the car...except for course for the F1's! There are reports of the F1's cracking just driving around in <40 degree temps. Not doing anything stupid or dangerous. Just cruising on the highway or driving around town in perfectly dry, clear, <40 degree temps.

15k miles on my 21" pzeros, plenty of tread left.