[raptor5244]

Some of the comments are pretty funny.

[90503]

What's sort of unusual is the immediate claim of EVs being a muscle car. I remember all the debates about the 5th and 6th gen Camaros not even being worthy of the muscle car label. It's still unclear and debated which cars from the 60's and 70's were not even worthy of being called muscle cars, etc.

The irony is that from what I've noticed in EVs is that none of them are muscle cars. Their very nature and low center of gravity, tire and brake technology, etc., makes them all-around good performers just like the 5th and 6th Gen Camaros with any engine choice.

What's further non-muscle car-ish about EVs is that none of them are really any kind of a hp dog or a weak power wise in comparison to what would give them the pep necessary to be called muscle. The low end EV isn't all that much different from a hi-end EV.

I think it's way too early to pre-ordain the pecking order of EVs. I think it will take quite a few years to see how it all pans out. I don't think you will see any EV trying to pretend they are similar to an ICE muscle car. They are a completely different animal and will have their own mojo.

The whole premise of EVs is to get away from and put an end to ICE. You won't see them trying to pay homage or copy any ICE muscle -car. Not everyone even agrees what a muscle car actually is or was anyhow.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by 90503

What's sort of unusual is the immediate claim of EVs being a muscle car. I remember all the debates about the 5th and 6th gen Camaros not even being worthy of the muscle car label. It's still unclear and debated which cars from the 60's and 70's were not even worthy of being called muscle cars, etc.

The irony is that from what I've noticed in EVs is that none of them are muscle cars. Their very nature and low center of gravity, tire and brake technology, etc., makes them all-around good performers just like the 5th and 6th Gen Camaros with any engine choice.

What's further non-muscle car-ish about EVs is that none of them are really any kind of a hp dog or a weak power wise in comparison to what would give them the pep necessary to be called muscle. The low end EV isn't all that much different from a hi-end EV.

I think it's way too early to pre-ordain the pecking order of EVs. I think it will take quite a few years to see how it all pans out. I don't think you will see any EV trying to pretend they are similar to an ICE muscle car. They are a completely different animal and will have their own mojo.

The whole premise of EVs is to get away from and put an end to ICE. You won't see them trying to pay homage or copy any ICE muscle -car. Not everyone even agrees what a muscle car actually is or was anyhow.

Exactly, it will be interesting to see how this all pans out. As you mentioned the EV powertrains are harder to differentiate since they all have that instant torque and throttle response. The main difference will be in running larger battery packs at higher voltages so they can maintain that torque as speed increases. Also, single speed transmissions are just boring, fast since no shifts required but boring nonetheless. Much of the performance is just software limiting anyway. Tesla has offered power bumps along the way with software updates and for $2k you can unlock about 50hp and torque in a Model 3 LR. It will net you about .5 sec drop to 60mph and .5 sec drop in 1/4 mile time. So, that could be one strategy Dodge abs others could use. They can leave performance on the table and then charge for performance software unlocks.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Norm, that “character” is only defined by NVH. That’s it. Noise and and vibration. Evert hint els3 will likely be FAR superior. And as I’ve said many, many times I get that and have enjoyed that. But at least be up front that you just need a loud, tuned exhaust to make it “better”

Let me clarify one of my previous responses a bit.

Exhaust sound and vibrations that I feel through the seat, pedals, and steering wheel are all important as far as me knowing how much of my car's performance I'm actually using. But they don't have to be at a 'shout' level for me to get the message, and in truth it's best if they aren't so I can get the full picture without, say, the sound overpowering the tactile. Or what the tires might be trying to tell me in a corner.

I don't have to be driving at "track intensity" to be aware of those things.


Norm

[hotlap]

My heart jumped when they backed my 1LE out of the detailing bay. I filmed it. I don't know if an EV would evoke the same reaction.

[Malbjey]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I don't think the kart driving experience can be extrapolated to full size car driving.

I've driven both, and while both kinds of karts are a lot of fun to drive up around their performance limits, they'd both be boring as hell to be putt-putting around in at 25% of that or less. Like where nearly all of your car driving lives . . .


Norm

Yes, but how much fun are you having while putting around in a Camaro? I don't file that under 'fun to drive' for any car, whether it's powered by an ICE or is an EV. I only have fun when I get to stretch its legs on a back road or (maybe) from a stop light.

That's why I'm not going to instantly discount an EV from providing a fun driving experience. I will miss the real engine noises for sure but I'm confident GM will be able to nail the driving dynamics, even with the disadvantages inherent to current EVs (i.e. weight).