09-05-2023, 01:07 PM | #43 | |
Iron fist, lead foot
Drives: 2003 Mustang Cobra Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,228
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Looking at their current, and moving forward, performance coupe competition, one can see that the pricing really isn't out of the "ordinary" for such vehicles. *All examples are MSRP + delivery/destination. 400Z Sport - $42,085 Performance - $52,085 Proto Spec - $56,380 GR Supra 2.0 - $45,735 3.0 - $54,695 3.0 Premium - $59,040 A91-MT - $61,735 2-Series 230i - $39,795 M240i - $50,695 M2 - $64,195 4-Series 430i - $50,895 M440i - $62,445 M4 - $79,095 M4 Competition - $83,195 Mustang Ecoboost - $33,160 (Premium - $38,685) GT - $44,735 (Premium - $49,255) Dark Horse - $61,510 (Premium $65,505)
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'03 SVT Cobra-SC4.6L V8 || modded with mods'n'stuff
Last edited by crysalis_01; 09-06-2023 at 09:53 AM. |
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09-07-2023, 02:52 PM | #44 |
Drives: LT1 Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Florida
Posts: 124
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Saw a video about some dude who said he placed an order and put down a deposit for a Dark Horse with some options at 73k with 0 markup in California.
A week later the dealer calls back and says they can't do anything less than a 30k markup. |
09-07-2023, 03:39 PM | #45 |
Iron fist, lead foot
Drives: 2003 Mustang Cobra Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,228
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What's worse is that even if he doesn't pay it, some moron will. It's the only thing that keeps these dealers pulling this stuff.
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'03 SVT Cobra-SC4.6L V8 || modded with mods'n'stuff
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09-08-2023, 07:50 AM | #46 |
Drives: 2023 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,037
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I blame the moron that pays it more than the dealer. If people would just be patient mark ups wouldn’t exist. I’m convinced the people that pay these markups were handed all kinds of toys when growing up and were never taught how to properly car shop.
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Current: 2023 2SS 1LE
Prior: 2016 Camaro 1SS 2007 Mustang GT 2008 Civic Si |
09-08-2023, 06:05 PM | #47 | ||
Drives: 2021 Camaro ZL1 A10 Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,212
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Quote:
Quote:
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2021 Camaro ZL1 A10
2022 GR Supra 3.0 Past: 2018 Mustang GT Premium w/ PP1, MR, and A10 2007 MazdaSpeed3 1995 Pontiac Trans Am 1987 Camaro Z28 |
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09-08-2023, 06:08 PM | #48 |
Drives: 2021 Camaro ZL1 A10 Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,212
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This is insanity. Even CFTP GT500s can be had for less than that now.
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2021 Camaro ZL1 A10
2022 GR Supra 3.0 Past: 2018 Mustang GT Premium w/ PP1, MR, and A10 2007 MazdaSpeed3 1995 Pontiac Trans Am 1987 Camaro Z28 |
09-08-2023, 06:22 PM | #49 |
Drives: 2021 Camaro ZL1 A10 Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,212
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Oh, and to pile onto the weight gain: C&D tested the 2024 Mustang Ecoboost A10: 3,812 lbs!! Nearly as heavy as an M6 ZLE and heavier than all SS Camaros, regardless of trim. The auto V6 Camaro weighs 3,441 lbs (also tested by C&D). The Mustang is a good example of compromised engineering.
Not to mention that V6 Camaro trapped 104 mph (in 2016) to the new Mustang’s 103 mph.
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2021 Camaro ZL1 A10
2022 GR Supra 3.0 Past: 2018 Mustang GT Premium w/ PP1, MR, and A10 2007 MazdaSpeed3 1995 Pontiac Trans Am 1987 Camaro Z28 |
09-08-2023, 06:32 PM | #50 | |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Petersham MA
Posts: 4,760
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Quote:
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2017 Chevy Camaro 2SS A8 Whipple 3.0, Mast Black Label heads, Fore triple in-tank pumps, 112mm TB, LPE +52% injectors, LPE BB HPFP, 15” conversion 1059 WHP/944 WTQ, 9.48@150
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09-08-2023, 06:50 PM | #51 |
Drives: 6th Gen LT1 Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: Southeast
Posts: 244
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I was reading some opionions on it.
There's the whole controversy of not being tune friendly, double throttle body, carbon traps and etc... Apparently the throttle bodies are controlled by MAF readings. Also there are power gains but 2023 GT could use 87 octane and the 2024 requires 91 or higher... |
09-08-2023, 06:54 PM | #52 |
Drives: 2021 Camaro ZL1 A10 Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,212
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Yeah. 1/4 mile is included in the “acceleration above 70 mph” category.
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2021 Camaro ZL1 A10
2022 GR Supra 3.0 Past: 2018 Mustang GT Premium w/ PP1, MR, and A10 2007 MazdaSpeed3 1995 Pontiac Trans Am 1987 Camaro Z28 |
09-08-2023, 09:00 PM | #53 | |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Petersham MA
Posts: 4,760
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Quote:
Also, since you brought it up, the GT500 is faster than the ZL1 UNDER 70 too, clocking in 3.2 second 0-60 time vs 3.5 for the ZL1. So if we’re keeping score, it’s faster below 70 and faster over 70 too. https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford...-shelby-gt500/ https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...t-test-review/
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2017 Chevy Camaro 2SS A8 Whipple 3.0, Mast Black Label heads, Fore triple in-tank pumps, 112mm TB, LPE +52% injectors, LPE BB HPFP, 15” conversion 1059 WHP/944 WTQ, 9.48@150
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09-08-2023, 09:04 PM | #54 | |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Petersham MA
Posts: 4,760
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Quote:
Tune is already cracked, FYI. Whipple has a tune for their upcoming blower already. The tune will be available much more quickly than the C8 one was. So that’s not an issue. Now the weight on the other hand, not great lol.
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2017 Chevy Camaro 2SS A8 Whipple 3.0, Mast Black Label heads, Fore triple in-tank pumps, 112mm TB, LPE +52% injectors, LPE BB HPFP, 15” conversion 1059 WHP/944 WTQ, 9.48@150
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09-08-2023, 10:07 PM | #55 | |
Drives: 2021 Camaro ZL1 A10 Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,212
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Quote:
C&D: 0-60: Base GT500: 3.4 sec CFTP GT500: 3.6 sec ZL1 A10: 3.4 sec (which is actually 3.3 sec with their current 1-ft rollout method) 1/4: 11.5 vs 11.3. Street surface they are pretty close in the 1/4. Granted the GT500 is moving faster, hence the acceleration above 70 mph category. Motortrend: Base GT500: 3.7 sec CFTP GT500: 3.6 sec ZL1: 3.5 sec Also, in C&D’s test for time splits from 30-50 and 50-70, a test that includes the time it takes the transmission to kick down and then the car accelerate in the split, the ZL1 went 1.8 and 2.1 sec, and the GT500 went 1.9 and 2.2 sec. I believe the A10 in the ZL1 kicks down a little quicker than the GT500. But yeah, the GT500 traps higher in the 1/4.
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2021 Camaro ZL1 A10
2022 GR Supra 3.0 Past: 2018 Mustang GT Premium w/ PP1, MR, and A10 2007 MazdaSpeed3 1995 Pontiac Trans Am 1987 Camaro Z28 |
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09-08-2023, 10:28 PM | #56 | |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Petersham MA
Posts: 4,760
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Quote:
I’ll take the extra 110 HP and better blower with way less heat soak. The GT500 will give you the same performance, back to back, since the 2650 blower is superior to the 1740. If you love road course work I can see the attraction the ZL1, but most people don’t and will take the faster & more powerful car. I love the Alpha chassis…so much that I have way more money into it than I’ll admit but it definitely performs. But the GT500 is a heck of a car…simply a better platform for big power. Guess it depends how far down the rabbit hole you plan on going.
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2017 Chevy Camaro 2SS A8 Whipple 3.0, Mast Black Label heads, Fore triple in-tank pumps, 112mm TB, LPE +52% injectors, LPE BB HPFP, 15” conversion 1059 WHP/944 WTQ, 9.48@150
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