[shaffe]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

And let's be real, the backseat in the Mustang is as atrocious as the Camaro this gen. There is absolutely no appreciable difference in the two in that category. Entry and egress with both is laughable for anyone over 25 who is the size of an average American.

Trunk space I agree (not so much the space but the idiotic opening).

yeah my parents had an S550 for a rental and the entry for the back seat IMO was way worse than my old S197

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by 2011shelby

Not made up.
http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=480598
Launch issue
http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498180
Rough idle don’t seem to be a common issue.
Headliner issues
http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showth...ight=Headliner
Slow start issue
http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showth...ght=Slow+start
I believe the battery cable issue was mostly on 5th gen cars.

More info can be found in Camaro issues section.

You're mentioning a few cars that have had 1 issue and trying to put it in the same boat as the GT which has had well documented major mechanical issues reported from a multitude of different sources ever since even back when the S197 was around. I can make post after post about the documented tramlining, clutch problems, drivetrain vibrations, etc that plague the GT. Here you see 2 SS Camaros that overrevved, one with a headliner issue, and 1 with a slow start issue and that is equivalent? LOL! Well I guess when you have a car as prone to having serious issues as the GT is and a car that is relatively trouble-free by comparison then every 5 of the Camaro's issues is like 2,000 Mustang issues. The issues you mention about the Camaro ARE actually issues that can be attributed to manufacturer problems and I'll admit that. But when Mustangs have to be taken to the dealership and driveshafts are being replaced, clutches, transmissions, and let's not forget about the entire GT350 line recall for potential fire hazard, that says a lot about how poorly they are made. Hell I'd take a headliner problem any day over a GT that has drivetrain vibrations.

Oh and what about the key fob, gauge cluster, OnStar, and the other BS you made up? Even if these were issues then that can be attributed to poor inspection or just someone doing a poor job. That is not even comparable to GTs that have had major mechanical issues for the past 5-10 years.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yes yes and yes.

It's fantastic that as consumers we have all these choices now. It's fantastic that GM made the Camaro so good and is pushing Ford to make the Mustang better. It's not hard to see that for the most part in the past, the Mustang like others have said has been good enough in GT trim. That was it, just good enough and people still bought them up like crazy. Camaro came back and it has been a constant battle back and forth. GM clearly has the upper hand now, but Ford is battling back. It is great to see.

Camaro comes back to life, next year comes the Coyote and updated V-6

Mustang performance pack starts to show these cars can handle, Boss 302 brings even further handling prowess, Camaro then updates the SS suspension, releases the 1LE and then the Z/28 and really shows some amazing handling cars. Ford not to be outdone by the Z/28 releases the 350R.

GT500 was a boulevard bruiser, ZL1 came out with more power and handling to match. Ford responds with the Trinity and uses massive power to counter.

S550 comes out and finally brings Mustang to 21st century, then alpha Camaro comes out and just puts American pony cars on notice as the king of the hill and now the facelifted S550 comes out chasing Camaro and looks to be trending in the right direction.

regardless of how much you like or dislike the brands, the competition has forced them to keep striving to make the cars better. that is the back and forth of these cars in the last 8 model years. That to me is just amazing what the competition between them does.

Its a great story and the competition at the manufacture level has resulted in extremely satisfying cars even at the SS level.

The manufactures compete to win us as consumers and brand identification is as old as capitalism itself. That's not a bad thing. Ford upped the performance in this round and I'm sure Chevy will improve visibility and the trunk opening in the next gen. Someone recently mentioned that the gen7 we might see 500 HP and 11s at the SS level. Marvelous.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Its a great story and the competition at the manufacture level has resulted in extremely satisfying cars even at the SS level.

The manufactures compete to win us as consumers and brand identification is as old as capitalism itself. That's not a bad thing. Ford upped the performance in this round and I'm sure Chevy will improve visibility and the trunk opening in the next gen. Someone recently mentioned that the gen7 we might see 500 HP and 11s at the SS level. Marvelous.

Yep the back and forth has been great for the consumer

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by germanicus

A little good natured ribbing/competition is fine, but some have a zealous agenda and wear their ego sensitivities a little too outwardly.

These are cars. It's not a religion.
I don't get the rabid tribalism.
Unfortunately its part of our culture. People defining their own self worth by their own perceived public perception of the vehicle they drive. It's classic materialism. The individual being defined by their stuff. If someone else challenges the value of their stuff, its a personal attack on them.

I appreciate all 3 Pony cars.

I preferred the Mustang. The SS I drove was great, but I preferred the interior of the Mustang (its where I drive the car from). The performance difference between the two simply wasn't enough to offset that preference. I totally get someone else preferring the Camaro. Im not diminished if they do. For others.....

I don't own GM, Ford, or FCA stock.

Here is the thing with me, I am not a brand loyalist. I have had more Mustangs in the past 10 years than most of these Mustang fanboys that troll this page. And that isn't even counting the other Fords I've had...Thunderbirds, Lincoln Mark VIIIs, Lincoln Navigator, F-150, etc. I know almost all there is to know about Mustangs. And throughout this entire debate my disgust has been towards the GT only. The GT has been a crappy car up until the Coyote engine was put in it in 2011. Even then it was behind in technology with a solid axle while the competition had IRS. And it was plagued with a lot of issues as well. For 16 it gained weight and got slower and still had the issues follow it from the S197 platform. So when I talk trash about the GT, trust me they earned it. Oh, and I think the GT350 is trash too. But the BOSS 302, GT500, Termi Cobras, non-Termi Cobras, Cobra R, all the higher up models are great cars. The GT is garbage. If I ever got another GT it would have to be a really sweet deal and I would upgrade every single upgradeable thing on it from the ground up.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

And let's be real, the backseat in the Mustang is as atrocious as the Camaro this gen. There is absolutely no appreciable difference in the two in that category. Entry and egress with both is laughable for anyone over 25 who is the size of an average American.

Trunk space I agree (not so much the space but the idiotic opening).

Leg room is similar, yes. Mustang has a touch more...but the issue really lies with the headroom. The roofline on the camaro is so damn low....

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

LOL I get what your saying just sometimes it seems some people on here get offended when people say the trunk/trunk opening is small and backseat is useless when compared to direct competitor.

I think its a struggle to identify what is important to each of us. Especially in light of voices advocating for changes when they are not Camaro buyers (ever).

My opinion...
- More weight and bigger dimensions isn't worth a larger seat.

- The truck lift-over height absolutely could have improved to make it better

- Visibility is not an issue. Its just not conventional. I drive mine every day, 10,000 mile per year. I never notice it. Never think about it.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Leg room is similar, yes. Mustang has a touch more...but the issue really lies with the headroom. The roofline on the camaro is so damn low....

You were saying?

[StateOfMind415]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

You were saying?

lol, I was thinking the exact same thing. If I was sitting in the backseat, i'd rather have my head rest on the headliner like the Camaro instead of the glass like the Mustang! Did that once and it was the worst! And the picture in the Camaro shows the guy not properly placing his head in the hump right in front of his head. Yea you have to tilt a bit forward, but at least they made room for your head to go somewhere.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

You were saying?

Haha, touche'. The guy in the mustang must have a long torso, because I'm 6'2" and don't have to tilt my head (although it does touch). Have had several adults back there without having to as well.

When I sat in the back of the camaro....yes, it's far worse.

[bdavies11]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Leg room is similar, yes. Mustang has a touch more...but the issue really lies with the headroom. The roofline on the camaro is so damn low....

Chevy should have used bucket seats in the back so you sit down in them which would have given more headroom. Why they didn't, is beyond me. The 4th gen Camaro had them and provided decent headroom even for me and I'm 6'4".

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I think its a struggle to identify what is important to each of us. Especially in light of voices advocating for changes when they are not Camaro buyers (ever).

My opinion...
- More weight and bigger dimensions isn't worth a larger seat.

- The truck lift-over height absolutely could have improved to make it better

- Visibility is not an issue. Its just not conventional. I drive mine every day, 10,000 mile per year. I never notice it. Never think about it.

I hear you.

[ChefBorOzzy]

I have no idea why you people are arguing rear seat space in either of these cars. I had a 2013 Mustang and space in back was atrocious, but could make it work for a short drive if the driver is uncomfortable as well. My friend has a 2015 and it's even worse. Camaro is even a bit worse? Who cares. I wouldn't put anyone in the backseat of either.. Unless it's a child. Lol.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Haha, touche'. The guy in the mustang must have a long torso, because I'm 6'2" and don't have to tilt my head (although it does touch). Have had several adults back there without having to as well.

When I sat in the back of the camaro....yes, it's far worse.

Maybe you've got an odd build. Saabkyle04 wouldn't even attempt it in his review and he's 5'10".

(21min mark)


Matt Marran who's 5'9" talking about no headroom (44 min mark)