[hotlap]

M3 is almost $91k with all the boxes checked

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

M3 is almost $91k with all the boxes checked

Yeah, I'm the other guy. If I got to the price with all the boxes checked, I would just pay the extra ten grand and get that middle class rated Chevy Z06 Corvette. Or, maybe I would get new SS Camaro and a new truck.

I think a lot of these folks with this strange BMW argument must have grown up with common core math. Where I come from 50k is 50k no matter what you can afford to spend it on. And if you can afford to drop that much, you must not be doing to bad for yourself no matter if your ass is piloting a Chevy or a Bore MW.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by motorhead

For the folks that are only looking for the perception of wealth, the 36k BMW doesn't perceive that. It proves what their true intenions are. The wealthly dont settle for that one unless maybe for the kids. Those folks aren't fooling anyone. If I ever fell and hit my head and then decided to look at BMWs, nothing less than an M3 coupe would be the starting point before I would ever consider turning my 50k Chevy in for a BMW. Oh and um, you can't get crab an M3 for 36k. Not new anyhow. Like always happens here in this fourm. It's always apples to oranges comparisons so people can try to proove whatever point.

Originally Posted by motorhead

Yeah, I'm the other guy. If I got to the price with all the boxes checked, I would just pay the extra ten grand and get that middle class rated Chevy Z06 Corvette. Or, maybe I would get new SS Camaro and a new truck.

I think a lot of these folks with this strange BMW argument must have grown up with common core math. Where I come from 50k is 50k no matter what you can afford to spend it on. And if you can afford to drop that much, you must not be doing to bad for yourself no matter if your ass is piloting a Chevy or a Bore MW.

your still looking at it from the enthusiasts point of view though. We know cars, we love cars. The average car buyer is dumb. Like myself and others have said it is the perceived value/image/status symbol that gives that BMW or MB the edge. Those people are the ones would say why should I spend this much on a Chevy when I get into a "luxury" car. Yes we as enthusiasts know that it is a base model or close to one. The average buyer and the general public does not know that. They see the badge, they think prestige.

[Techn9cian805]

Originally Posted by shaffe

your still looking at it from the enthusiasts point of view though. We know cars, we love cars. The average car buyer is dumb. Like myself and others have said it is the perceived value/image/status symbol that gives that BMW or MB the edge. Those people are the ones would say why should I spend this much on a Chevy when I get into a "luxury" car. Yes we as enthusiasts know that it is a base model or close to one. The average buyer and the general public does not know that. They see the badge, they think prestige.

EXACTLY! case closed.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by shaffe

your still looking at it from the enthusiasts point of view though. We know cars, we love cars. The average car buyer is dumb. Like myself and others have said it is the perceived value/image/status symbol that gives that BMW or MB the edge. Those people are the ones would say why should I spend this much on a Chevy when I get into a "luxury" car. Yes we as enthusiasts know that it is a base model or close to one. The average buyer and the general public does not know that. They see the badge, they think prestige.

That's not being an enthusiast. It's called not being a dumb ass. I don't care if it's cars or refrigerators only idiots buy something based on the perception that it will make them look a certain way. I avoid people that think that way. They suck brain cells from you by just talking.
If there are more of those type of people in the world then we are all doomed. Although,they will be the first people eaten when this all comes to an end and survival skills and brains is all that matters.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by motorhead

That's not being an enthusiast. It's called not being a dumb ass. I don't care if it's cars or refrigerators only idiots buy something based on the perception that it will make them look a certain way. I avoid people that think that way. They suck brain cells from you by just talking.
If there are more of those type of people in the world then we are all doomed. Although,they will be the first people eaten when this all comes to an end and survival skills and brains is all that matters.

LOL. Hate to say it but that is pretty much the general public when it comes to buying stuff. They will do their research but majority of the time they simply trust whatever name is on it. what pains me more to say it is its mostly people around my age 25-30.

One of my oldest friends who is a car guy, as soon as he got his job which pays him a decent $ first thing he did was ditch his Ford for an Infinity. Thought about a Challenger, looked at what it would cost him for what he wanted, sprung for the Infinity bc of the "status" symbol. He has since realized it was a move to "gain status" and ditched the car, but still. That is the perception of the public. Why spend XX on something when I can get this brand for the same (evne though it may not have the same features or abilities)

[Techn9cian805]

Originally Posted by motorhead

That's not being an enthusiast. It's called not being a dumb ass. I don't care if it's cars or refrigerators only idiots buy something based on the perception that it will make them look a certain way. I avoid people that think that way. They suck brain cells from you by just talking.
If there are more of those type of people in the world then we are all doomed. Although,they will be the first people eaten when this all comes to an end and survival skills and brains is all that matters.

you underestimate the number of idiots out there, which highly outnumber us sensible Camaro guys

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by shaffe

LOL. Hate to say it but that is pretty much the general public when it comes to buying stuff. They will do their research but majority of the time they simply trust whatever name is on it. what pains me more to say it is its mostly people around my age 25-30.

One of my oldest friends who is a car guy, as soon as he got his job which pays him a decent $ first thing he did was ditch his Ford for an Infinity. Thought about a Challenger, looked at what it would cost him for what he wanted, sprung for the Infinity bc of the "status" symbol

I'm not tooting my own horn, but I've been pretty successful as well as a lot of my friends. None of us buy anything based that way at all. We all like to have nice things, but that's different. What you drive doesn't nothing to prove your status. That's what dump people don't understand. Example. In my town there is a man that is very well respected and one of the richest people in the area. He has several companies, tons of property and a truckload of money. He drives an old Dodge truck and lives in a mid sized ranchhouse. He percieved staus to people that don't know him(and that isn't many) is of an old middle class guy, but to people that do know him, he is highly respected because he earned it. No car or any material thing will get you the kind of respect that he has.

It's really sad if our young people are viewing things the way you say. I know one that won't and doesn't. My daughter.

[SpeedIsLife]

Why are people acting like status based on "brand recognition" is a unique or new attribute to the more recent generations?

Give me a break. Why do you think people wanted Aston Martins, Jags and Porsches when you could get a C2/C3 Stingray that did just as well? Status of the badges. And that was in the 60's.

People like what they like. If they want a BMW M2 over a highly optioned 2SS Camaro because they prefer BMW or European cars...that's their choice. It doesn't make them stupid for "choosing a more expensive car with less performance"...it means they LIKE the BMW more.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I'm not tooting my own horn, but I've been pretty successful as well as a lot of my friends. None of us buy anything based that way at all. We all like to have nice things, but that's different. What you drive doesn't nothing to prove your status. That's what dump people don't understand. Example. In my town there is a man that is very well respected and one of the richest people in the area. He has several companies, tons of property and a truckload of money. He drives an old Dodge truck and lives in a mid sized ranchhouse. He percieved staus to people that don't know him(and that isn't many) is of an old middle class guy, but to people that do know him, he is highly respected because he earned it. No car or any material thing will get you the kind of respect that he has.

It's really sad if our young people are viewing things the way you say. I know one that won't and doesn't. My daughter.

Yep. It is sad, but that is what's out there. The general public is dumb. You can even dial this back to mid 2000s to now. People started buying up Toyota's/Honda's because they are super reliable right? Well they aren't as reliable as they used to be(mostly bc of how big toyota has gotten) yet you ask someone that doesn't know cars to name a reliable car most likely they are going to say Toyota or Honda. Even if GM had a few years with reports showing they are more reliable then Toyota, people will still say toyota because people are dumb.

Other examples along these lines:

The Z/28. To some people no matter how good it performed, no matter cars it could beat around a race track, it was still a Camaro. a 75K dollar Camaro.

Focus RS. Go look at the thread here. The RS is well established in Europe as a great car. It is priced competitively with the cars it competes with, yet numerous replies from members here bad mouth it just because it is a Focus.

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer70

It's a Ford Focus...

Originally Posted by 70454

I think the Focus looks terrible and I owned 2 srt-4's with that terrible high spoiler that came stock with the srt but I switched to the sxt spoiler right away. I would buy a slightly used STI or Evo all day everyday over this Focus. Any Focus that costs over 30K is going to be a hard sell imo.

Originally Posted by xc_SS/RS

\I don't see it getting very much love here after initial hype dies down. I say that because I really don't see many people, aside from those who are really into a car such as this, stepping up to pay 36K for a Focus. Yes, it's had a ton of extra engineering and technology put into it to make it go faster but the market isn't as big here for it.

I could be proven wrong and it could sell like hot cakes. I just don't see many jumping on this bandwagon when you can get more performance for a couple grand more (Camaro, Mustang and tons of others on the used market).

Originally Posted by Grabber

The Focus is impressive, but, I don't think 40K+ impressive.

.

Now they may not like it for various reasons, be it bc its a Ford, or a hot hatch. But these responses are mostly the fact that just because it is a Focus its not good, and its overpriced. They already have made their judgment on the car based on the fact its a Focus and its price. Perception is everything, doesn't matter if your looking at different performance cars, or a luxury car to a chevrolet

[King Sun]

Yeah no matter how much we try to debate this the camaro might have potentially outpriced itself out the market. Doesn't make it a bad car for the money which I think it is a value for what you get but when you start hitting the 50k range the average consumer that wanted a camaro will start looking at luxury sports cars.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yep. It is sad, but that is what's out there. The general public is dumb. You can even dial this back to mid 2000s to now. People started buying up Toyota's/Honda's because they are super reliable right? Well they aren't as reliable as they used to be(mostly bc of how big toyota has gotten) yet you ask someone that doesn't know cars to name a reliable car most likely they are going to say Toyota or Honda. Even if GM had a few years with reports showing they are more reliable then Toyota, people will still say toyota because people are dumb.

Other examples along these lines:

The Z/28. To some people no matter how good it performed, no matter cars it could beat around a race track, it was still a Camaro. a 75K dollar Camaro.

Focus RS. Go look at the thread here. The RS is well established in Europe as a great car. It is priced competitively with the cars it competes with, yet numerous replies from members here. "still a focus" "36K for a focus" "Ford is going to have a hard time selling a 36K car that people see as a rental car" and that is coming from enthusiasts!

Well, now we are talking about good marketing and paying the media off to be on your side.
It's just like mini ductless units in my world. They are marketed as the next best thing to sliced bread to unsuspecting home owners. When in reality, they have a place, but they are not the saving grace in the HVAC world that their makers claim. There are a lot of homes here in the north east that currently don't maintain setpoint because they aren't for every application.

Marketing often drives perception. BMW could build the same exact cars as they do now ,and if the media turned on them, they would be mud in no time to all these dump people we've been talking about. It's kind of like Obi-Wan Kenobi saying to the stormtroopers "These aren't the droids you are looking for" and they bite. Luke says "how did you do that?" He says" it only works on the weak mined". The media and marketing is Obi-Wan preying on the weak mined.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

your still looking at it from the enthusiasts point of view though. We know cars, we love cars. The average car buyer is dumb. Like myself and others have said it is the perceived value/image/status symbol that gives that BMW or MB the edge. Those people are the ones would say why should I spend this much on a Chevy when I get into a "luxury" car. Yes we as enthusiasts know that it is a base model or close to one. The average buyer and the general public does not know that. They see the badge, they think prestige.

Originally Posted by shaffe

LOL. Hate to say it but that is pretty much the general public when it comes to buying stuff. They will do their research but majority of the time they simply trust whatever name is on it. what pains me more to say it is its mostly people around my age 25-30.

One of my oldest friends who is a car guy, as soon as he got his job which pays him a decent $ first thing he did was ditch his Ford for an Infinity. Thought about a Challenger, looked at what it would cost him for what he wanted, sprung for the Infinity bc of the "status" symbol. He has since realized it was a move to "gain status" and ditched the car, but still. That is the perception of the public. Why spend XX on something when I can get this brand for the same (evne though it may not have the same features or abilities)

In the case you outline, the problem isn't that the 2SS to too expensive. The buyers priorities have changed. A base luxury car and a performance/muscle/sports car don't compare. Building a cheaper, poorer performing Camaro isn't going to make that buyer move down market away from the Infinity.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by King Sun

Yeah no matter how much we try to debate this the camaro might have potentially outpriced itself out the market. Doesn't make it a bad car for the money which I think it is a value for what you get but when you start hitting the 50k range the average consumer that wanted a camaro will start looking at luxury sports cars.

I do believe this pricing stucture is being forced by our government. It's also a way of testing the waters to see just how much people are willing to pay for a certain product. These types of car's days are numbered for the average person. It's already happening with the trucks. I've noticed that manufacturers are pushing the work truck packages to the general public, and offer more lower teir options than I've seen in a long time. The funny thing is now you pay 36k for a stripped down truck thay not many years ago bought you a very nicely equipped higher end model. I just read an article in one of the business magazines about 10 things the middle class could no longer truly afford. A new truck was one of them. This conversation is for a different thread though.