This is how Chevy treats my $45,000 "track ready" car

[GONIF]

Originally Posted by White_SS/RS

We all recognize the difference between the clutch (friction surfaces) and the clutch operating system... right? Its not a clutch issue its the clutch operating system. (from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder). The operating system should not get jacked up after 11k and 3 track days.

EXACTLY

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by White_SS/RS

We all recognize the difference between the clutch (friction surfaces) and the clutch operating system... right? Its not a clutch issue its the clutch operating system. (from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder). The operating system should not get jacked up after 11k and 3 track days.

Well said! I also have problems understanding how problems with the system can be track related. When I lived in North GA in the mountains, I had like 100 shifts per day going to and from work (upshifts and rev matching downshifts). That is a bunch of shifts, and far more than anyone that lived in a coastal area like I do now. The system should be able to handle this. I think we really need to know what the problem is with corrnerspeeds clutch / system to understand what is going on.

[strych9]

I think I spelled it out well here:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...6&postcount=24

[ToolFan66]

Originally Posted by White_SS/RS

We all recognize the difference between the clutch (friction surfaces) and the clutch operating system... right? Its not a clutch issue its the clutch operating system. (from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder). The operating system should not get jacked up after 11k and 3 track days.

[USMUCL]

Originally Posted by strych9

I think I spelled it out well here:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...6&postcount=24

Well, since you obviously know everything, I guess this thread should be locked.

[z3R0fo01]

Oh I was never implying that I would not be pissed if what the OP is saying is true and I were in his shoes. Sometimes you just have to man up and move on. Admit you made a mistake and that GM may or may not have gotten the better of you.

I guess I am used to it. I had an EVO X and the solenoid that controls the hydraulic fluid for the active differential is exposed to the elements. It goes bad after a couple of years (if you are lucky) and costs 1,500 to 2k to replace. Nothing a person can do about it but get pissed off about poor design and then move on. At the very least keep a little dignity along the way is all I am saying.

[1KillerSS]

This thread is so interesting to me, I have learned so much about warranty repair, just from the searching I have done as a result of reading this.

In GM's favor.....I was, after the last few posts more siding with GM on the fact that basically nobody will cover track use, nobody. There have been some really great points made about that issue, driver error for one, (not saying that the OP was at fault) even if they make the statement that the car is "track ready" the warranty still states that its not covered.

In the OP's favor......Then their is the fact that it is not an issue with the friction surface, but the actual system by design itself. That is also a serious point in favor of the OP. That on top of the fact that its a "known" issue.

I am completely split on the issue, I don't blame the OP for being irate over this, nor do I blame others for telling him to "get over it". I cannot remember the last time I was completely torn in two different directions like this.

After all of the time spent on the subject, I can honestly say that I have a new found appreciation for both the consumer and the manufacturer.

[Billy10mm]

Originally Posted by GONIF

You guys are missing my point , the clutch system has been flawed from day one ,GM knows this and has done nothing to address the problem. Burning out a clutch disk is normal ,and that is something that is a wear item and I expect to change it and the throw out and pressure plate from time to time. . A poorly designed clutch system is not ,and by now GM should have redesigned it .

Why do you keep saying this? What about the clutch system in my 1LE is "seriously flawed" or "poorly designed"?

I've got a little over 9K miles on my 1LE. I haven't had a single issue with so much as a single shift since I've taken delivery. Not one. My 1LE has the best transmission of any car I've ever owned and this is my first foray into American car ownership, before this I was almost exclusively a BMW man (who are known for making great manual transmissions).

If this was a "serious flaw" in the design, all cars would be having problems. They aren't. Some cars are having problems, and we don't yet know what's causing those issues. They could be driver errors, they could be manufacturing tolerance issues, they could be supplier issues.

The comment that "burning out a clutch disk is normal" ... is absurd. My last manual went 186K miles on the original clutch and that included 6 years worth of track days (6 to 10 track days per year, lots of spirited driving, it was also my daily-driver into and out of Manhattan, so it saw quite a lot of time stuck in traffic). The motor went out on that car before the clutch did. My last true dedicated track car was on track duty from 2001 to 2006 and although I went through over a dozen sets of tires and at least 4 sets of brakes, the original clutch felt factory new when I sold it.

Clutches may be wear items, but properly used, they should last well over a quarter of a million miles. The guy responsible for getting me into both BMWs and tracking, started his track work on his 1986 BMW 325e. That car finally rusted out around 2008 and with almost 280K miles on the clock it was still on the original clutch. He tracked the crap out of that car.

[GONIF]

Originally Posted by Billy10mm

Why do you keep saying this? What about the clutch system in my 1LE is "seriously flawed" or "poorly designed"?

I've got a little over 9K miles on my 1LE. I haven't had a single issue with so much as a single shift since I've taken delivery. Not one. My 1LE has the best transmission of any car I've ever owned and this is my first foray into American car ownership, before this I was almost exclusively a BMW man (who are known for making great manual transmissions).

If this was a "serious flaw" in the design, all cars would be having problems. They aren't. Some cars are having problems, and we don't yet know what's causing those issues. They could be driver errors, they could be manufacturing tolerance issues, they could be supplier issues.

The comment that "burning out a clutch disk is normal" ... is absurd. My last manual went 186K miles on the original clutch and that included 6 years worth of track days (6 to 10 track days per year, lots of spirited driving, it was also my daily-driver into and out of Manhattan, so it saw quite a lot of time stuck in traffic). The motor went out on that car before the clutch did. My last true dedicated track car was on track duty from 2001 to 2006 and although I went through over a dozen sets of tires and at least 4 sets of brakes, the original clutch felt factory new when I sold it.

Clutches may be wear items, but properly used, they should last well over a quarter of a million miles. The guy responsible for getting me into both BMWs and tracking, started his track work on his 1986 BMW 325e. That car finally rusted out around 2008 and with almost 280K miles on the clock it was still on the original clutch. He tracked the crap out of that car.

I say that because ,the design is bad. Clutch dust gets into both the brake and clutch fluid . And it should have had 2 fluid reservoirs 1 for the brake system and one for the clutch. And the master ,and slave and throw out bearing are not close to up to par. If it were designed right there would not be clutch dust getting in to the brake fluid . If you can live with that ,then enjoy and good luck. DESIGN FLAW, DESIGN FLAW,DESIGN FLAW .

[Bizaro]

god forbid someone unhappy speak badly about holy GM the fanboys at full attack!!

[Bizaro]

I also have to add yes driver error can and will cause grinding and clutch problems but please when you start googling peoples problems with this shitty tremec6060 transmission you start seeing a pattern and its not just camaros everything from corvettes to mustangs are having these issues evidence have me concur with GONIF that its a design flaw.

[CamaroDreams76]

Wouldn't a design flaw affect every car?

Not trying to be a smart a** or anything but that's a serious question.

Design flaw I thought affects every car like the clutch sticking to the floor during a hard launch. That affects every single SS manual and can be replicated in every SS/LS3 out of the factory.

[White_SS/RS]

Originally Posted by Billy10mm

Why do you keep saying this? What about the clutch system in my 1LE is "seriously flawed" or "poorly designed"?

I've got a little over 9K miles on my 1LE. I haven't had a single issue with so much as a single shift since I've taken delivery. Not one. My 1LE has the best transmission of any car I've ever owned and this is my first foray into American car ownership, before this I was almost exclusively a BMW man (who are known for making great manual transmissions).

If this was a "serious flaw" in the design, all cars would be having problems. They aren't. Some cars are having problems, and we don't yet know what's causing those issues. They could be driver errors, they could be manufacturing tolerance issues, they could be supplier issues.

The comment that "burning out a clutch disk is normal" ... is absurd. My last manual went 186K miles on the original clutch and that included 6 years worth of track days (6 to 10 track days per year, lots of spirited driving, it was also my daily-driver into and out of Manhattan, so it saw quite a lot of time stuck in traffic). The motor went out on that car before the clutch did. My last true dedicated track car was on track duty from 2001 to 2006 and although I went through over a dozen sets of tires and at least 4 sets of brakes, the original clutch felt factory new when I sold it.

Clutches may be wear items, but properly used, they should last well over a quarter of a million miles. The guy responsible for getting me into both BMWs and tracking, started his track work on his 1986 BMW 325e. That car finally rusted out around 2008 and with almost 280K miles on the clock it was still on the original clutch. He tracked the crap out of that car.

..but you can still say that those of us with problems should not be having them, right? You have proof in your own examples that a clutch system should make the grade for years.

[TxBandit911]

Originally Posted by CamaroDreams76

Wouldn't a design flaw affect every car?

Not trying to be a smart a** or anything but that's a serious question.

Design flaw I thought affects every car like the clutch sticking to the floor during a hard launch. That affects every single SS manual and can be replicated in every SS/LS3 out of the factory.

Exactly, not every SS M6 Camaro has a problem with the clutch system.

I purchased my 1LE knowing GMs hydraulic clutch system has been crap since 1998. Guess what? I AutoX my car, already knew that when the factory system starts to crap out, like they all do after beating on it for a little while, I will just replace the crap with upgraded stuff.

My Trans am that had seen lots of track time drag racing went thru three clutches and three rear ends in a year. I just did some simple research, figured out what weak parts were causing the issues and replaced them with better stuff. Problems solved. No way in hell was I gonna 1. Expect GM to give me free stuff because of abuse I did to the car. Or 2. Let them put the same weak ass parts back on the car again just to fail me later.

What's even amuses me more about this thread is that you don't see the forum cluttered with threads titled "I snapped an axle at the drag strip and GM wont give me a free one, GM's customer service is BS...." How come the drag racers get how this stuff works and so many others dont? Mind boggling...