Open Letter from Al Oppenhieser to the Camaro Nation and Ford.

[72MachOne99GT]

Hey guys, I appreciate the positive responses to my 'inagural' post. (may have misused 'inagural' there, but who cares right?)

It's nice to be a guest on a forum where if you know how to approach a subject with a little bit of humility, and intelligence, you won't get ran into the bushes and whacked. (IE: the other guys who come on here posting strictly pro-mustang anti-camaro things, get banned, then bitch about how you guys are all babies.... really? are they serious?)

Someone earlier mentioned how they felt a little let down by the fact that GM had done little to update their fifth gens since their release. While I do agree that it kind of sucks, you're preaching to the choir if you try to sing that tale to Mustang fans. Let us look at the '05-'10 Mustang GT.

Ummm......the first two, maybe three years sold like friggen' hot hot hot hot cakes....(dare I say that might have pushed GM to pay more attention to the 4 door sports car segment once again?) and all was well in the world of Mustang sales. Well, by the time '08 and '09 came around, we still had no changes. Sure, the GT500 was out there making tire smoke in it's down syndrome faced way for over 40,000 dollars, but the new hot GT was growing way too long in the tooth.

So all Ford did was stimulate us with a new exterior/interior with the same anemic 3v 4.6 that while hot in '05 and '06, was still unable to outperform an automatic equipped, 2.73 geared ls1 from 1998.

Perhaps it was the reintroduction of the Camaro that made Ford release their new 5.0, or maybe it was in the plans all along, we don't really know...but if I know enough about GM and their ...(god I'm about to be sick....) cough couch Camaro Pride............. it's that they won't sit around and let the GT smack around the SS for 4-5 years.... as it sits.. the '11,'12, and likely '13's are all faster for us Ford guys..... you all know that the SS has something coming, even if it's just enough to beat the current GT by a hair.

Recently I've heard some discussion on teh Ford forums that the alledged 7:30ish passes in the pre-production GT500's never occured, and that Ford brought the GT500 back home with a little bit of disappointment and upgrades to be made...maybe it's true, maybe its not.... we'll find out soon enough.

(now that i've rambled long enough.. 10-11 bud lights and a pregnant wife will do that to a man, I've got something else to say, completely against what a lot of other ford fans might say)

IMHO...Ford didn't drop their 650/600/200mph numbers on Chevy to steal their thunder. In fact, motortrend predicted that their numbers would be dropped at the LV Auto Show several months ago. And furthermore, MAYBE I missed something, but nobody at Ford or at SVT *the real brains of the operation)* claimed to take down the ZL1 at the ring.....

I'll speak on my own behalf ans go ahead and say it...if the ZL1 has a faster time around some ring in Europe that I'll never go to, nor be able to afford to visit after buying one of these cars, I won't think twice. Maybe I'll even laugh and congratulate some crazy GM driver I meet somewhhere. BUT... I'll still own my '13 GT500 looking for that crazy Camaro driver that thinks he's hot shit, or that retarded Mustang owner who thinks his 2V PI 4.6 is hot shit, or that one armed guy driving his civic to instigate, and I'll proceed to do my best to put them in their place in the food chain.

I sort of lost where I was going in that last paragraph so I'll end it there later dudes

[1BADZL1]

For Mustang fans, you're welcome. Clearly the Camaro has encouraged Ford to throw everything they can at us."



http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/18/c...-ford-mustang/

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by 2010SS2SS

Just what I thought! ALL that HP and they aren't hitting the mark on times at the "RING".
If so they would have jumped on the chance to prove it

they still runnin' a live axle in that snake?.if they are,no wonder,they want no part of the zl1!..just sayin'

[snapp32e]

Screw the Z28.....bring back the IROC.

[72MachOne99GT]

Originally Posted by jmaryt

they still runnin' a live axle in that snake?.if they are,no wonder,they want no part of the zl1!..just sayin'

And again, respectfully, I will say that the '11 and '12 GT500s pulled a 1.0G on the skidpad with their crappy live axle. Consider that SVT didn't spend a year doing nothing but adding 100 horsepower on a 5.8@15 psi (5.4s@15psi are yielding well over 650 flywheel HP), but I just think a lot of you GM guys are not giving this Snake a fighting chance.

Sure, I'll be the first to admit that this magnetic suspension is leaps and bounds more complex, technilogically advanced, and likely more capable than a live axle that has been on the Mustang since sometime around April of 1964, and about 1967-2002 on your Camaro :0.

BUT....Ford has done everything but PERFECT the live axle on their cars. Sure, it might only shine on a flat surface, but if that's what it was built for, and it somewhow shows that it is capable of performing to a level that is nealry equal with a suspension set up that is leaps and bounds ahead of it, what does that say about one or the other?

[Ltespd]

I just came back from the LA Auto Show. Got to see both cars up close. With all due respect to Ford...the rear of the GT500 is hideous. It is downright ugly. My wife said "theres no way you're buying that car right?"
After seeing the GT500 in person. I don't care if it runs runs 6:41 at the Ring, and does a 10 sec 1/4. I can't buy it. I know looks are subjective...but

[Ltespd]

Here's a pic

[Knight_Rider]

Originally Posted by Scarrzz

.

Whaaaat? Ford has a FAIL-burger and Chevy is full of Awesomesauce ?
.
(I like going fast AND turning.)

Best comment ever!

Originally Posted by Ltespd

Here's a pic

The front is no more appealing than the rear. The front end now looks like a cross between a GT and a Dodge Charger.

[coolman]

Originally Posted by Ltespd

Here's a pic

I love the changes to the back end. It looks awesome to me. As far as looks, the 2013 gt500 and the ZL1 is toss up. For me, after getting kicked in the teeth with trying to get a ZL1, I'll probably buy whichever one I can get my hands on first. I don't believe though that the GT500 will be the ZL1 killer that some are saying.
My 2010 couldn't hook up with 540Hp. They will have to make major changes to get 650HP to hook up.

[j.jones7]

Hello Sir
I see you own both the camaro and the gt 500. I owened the vette and the 04 cobra vert. Which one is really funny to drive to you? Your personal grade. I will tell you off of my experiences the vette handles better than any car you can buy for the money so im sure the lz1 will be a damn good car overall. But there is nothing more exciting than driving a supercharged car. I enjoy my vette but the snake is just heart stopping! dont

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

You guys are all getting riled up over some article? Is this what it takes to get some of you to keep faith in your chosen car? I will say that Ford does test cars there, they just don't always publish the times. Seriously, who cares about the times? You test cars to see where you need to make the adjustments for overall compromise of track and streetability no matter how fast or slow you may run...running the fastest time IS NOT the goal for these low to mid level types of production sports or muscle cars. Also, any manufacturer can dress up a car to look like a test mule for a production car and run eye-popping times that will not be duplicated by anyone else using a real production car. Also, who buys a car based on the ring time anyway? Are you ever gonna take your car there? Some of you will never even cross the Altantic! There have been cars who posted good times there and get creamed by cars who never tested or have poor or non-published ring times....example.. CTS-V, M3, 911s are a just a few who eats a Boss LS and GT500 exhaust fumes in roadcourse tracks in the US. The bottom line is, when you see the comparo results from various magazines' testings and our own experience, blabber away then. Until then, you are just stressing over nothing. I have a lot of faith in what the ZL1 can do and at the same time, I can't wait to see what the new GT500 will do. Let's just all positively look forward to enjoy the upcoming battle! It is a Win-Win no matter what.

[MG]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Good point - as I'd mentioned above (altho I think I was still writing it when you posted this)

Case in point: I remember Cheryl and I driving a very early car at Milford Proving Grounds - at at high speed, the hood would 'flutter' (interestingly, I was driving a luxury car earlier this week in Philadelphia from National Car rental - it was brand "X" -- and the hood at 60 miles an hour fluttered - completely unacceptable in my book!) Anyway - the Camaro team took care of the 'flutter' -- but it added weight!

As to the LS9 - let me ask you this: How much more would you be willing to pay to get that engine in a Camaro? (that's a crucial question, by the way)

Think of all the $60K-$100K+ that people have spent on SLP ZL1's, Hennessy Camaros and so on.

Besides, a Camaro of that stature would serve as a halo for our brand, it need not be a cash cow.

As I see it, all the GT500 has on the ZL1 is the extra 70 HP and resultant 200 MPH top speed. GM has in its hands the tools necessary to easily win back the advantage in both of those figures; those which happen to cast the strongest public impression.

Check out the poll on InsideLine:

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/

Obviously Ford waited till Chevy spilled the beans on the ZL1 pricing and performance numbers. It seems that Team Camaro was taken by surprise with regards to the 2013 GT500.

I can see a higher trim level for the ZL1 maybe? An engine upgrade option? IDK, this is where people like yourself come into play

[j.jones7]

Ive been reading all the response to mustang and camaro whos better or not. Im not going to say who will win. But as I know all the camaro fans that think your going to be driving on the highway and that gt 500 pulls up to at 50MPH and your going to actually pull away from him in the next 1/8 or 1/4 you might want to stop talking. 70% of all your test between these cars will be rolling races and a car weighing 300 pound less with 70 more horse will make you have a bad day. Just something to think about!

Originally Posted by Ltespd

I just came back from the LA Auto Show. Got to see both cars up close. With all due respect to Ford...the rear of the GT500 is hideous. It is downright ugly. My wife said "theres no way you're buying that car right?"
After seeing the GT500 in person. I don't care if it runs runs 6:41 at the Ring, and does a 10 sec 1/4. I can't buy it. I know looks are subjective...but

[j.jones7]

Ive been reading all the response to mustang and camaro whos better or not. Im not going to say who will win. But as I know all the camaro fans that think your going to be driving on the highway and that gt 500 pulls up to at 50MPH and your going to actually pull away from him in the next 1/8 or 1/4 you might want to stop talking. 70% of all your test between these cars will be rolling races and a car weighing 300 pound less with 70 more horse will make you have a bad day. Just something to think about!

Originally Posted by OldJedi

Every automobile manufacturer that has a true performance car takes it to the 'Ring' for testing and development work. The Ring will bring out the very best and the very worst features about the car. There has to be some reason why Ford does not bring their Mustangs there. They had no problem testing the Ford GT there, why not the Mustang. Ford is claiming the most powerful production V8 ever built. If you want to make a claim like that then you should be able to back it up. I say Chevy picked the Ring, take both cars there with their best drivers and see what happens. Then let Ford pick a track of their choosing, like Laguna Seca or where ever, and run both cars again. Each manufacturer picks their favorite track, favorite driver at the same time and the same place and lets see if the most powerful production engine in the world can stay with the most technically advanced Camaro ever built. Ford, the ball is in your court. Are you ready to play?

[07-SRT]

Originally Posted by j.jones7

Ive been reading all the response to mustang and camaro whos better or not. I'm not going to say who will win. But as I know all the camaro fans that think your going to be driving on the highway and that gt 500 pulls up to at 50MPH and your going to actually pull away from him in the next 1/8 or 1/4 you might want to stop talking. 70% of all your test between these cars will be rolling races and a car weighing 300 pound less with 70 more horse will make you have a bad day. Just something to think about!

agree^^^^^

GM keeps talking about how the ZL1 is track ready.. ok so it is.. don't get me wrong its going to be a great car, however....
Go look at all the muscle car forums (camaro5) included and your going to find more top list for 1/4 mile times...not track, those who track their car are in the minority... so if you don't track it, when are you going to use the suspensions capibilities....? Its still about the 1/4 mile with American muscle and a great suspension is an added bonus....JMO