Looking to start suspension mods, bushings or sway bars first?

[Eaglerulez]

Hey everyone!

I was looking into starting some suspension upgrades for my V6 Camaro and was wondering which would be the more beneficial to start with, sway bars, or bushings?

I've searched through just about every thread about bushings, and I think Pedders has made a pretty compelling argument for upgrading them. My biggest problem with them is that 1) Pedders may not be around for very long and I was thinking about getting their inserts. 2) Installing the inserts seems, very, very hard and I have yet to really see a step by step guide for how to install the inserts without dropping the whole cradle.

On the flip side most people say that sway bars make the most noticeable difference in performance and they seem pretty easy to install across the board. Raise the car a bit, loosen a few bolts, slip out the old bar, tighten the bolts for the new one. On the front side just take off the front wheel for some more maneuverability if necessary. I was thinking of going with the pfadt sway bars.

Which do you guys recommend and which do you think I would be happier with for day to day driving?

[caverman]

I would say bushings first unless you have a lot of twisties around you. You can look at Whiteline inserts. I believe they are the same design as Pedders but I don't know about how the polly is compared to them. I did my inserts without dropping the cradle. Eventually I'll probably go to a solid bush but the inserts have been working for me so far.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...hlight=pedders

[VR Baron]

I run whiteline cradle incerts andupper rear bushes and like them.They make the pedders bushings and are just about as hard and half the price or close.THose and the front radius arm incerts and you are good to go. Go whiteline, the rest use a durameter poly thats to soft, besides no choice as Pedders USA is out of business.
Next its sways, then springs if you want

[Eaglerulez]

Originally Posted by caverman

I would say bushings first unless you have a lot of twisties around you. You can look at Whiteline inserts. I believe they are the same design as Pedders but I don't know about how the polly is compared to them. I did my inserts without dropping the cradle. Eventually I'll probably go to a solid bush but the inserts have been working for me so far.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...hlight=pedders

Awesome! Sounds like bushings are the way to go. Are the Whiteline Cross Member Inserts the same thing as subframe inserts?

And I guess what is confusing me about the insert installation is that I don't understand the whole process.

I guess it starts with lifting the car, taking off the wheels, but then what? Most of the threads just seem to have pics of people having difficulty removing the bushings and such but I don't know what happens before that for them to get to that point haha.

Thanks for all of the help!

[S-eatin-grin]

sway bars couldn't be easier to install and given that you are driving a V6 not sure you need anything more than the bushing inserts to stiff things up a bit. Talk to one of the vendors about your goals...

[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by Eaglerulez

Awesome! Sounds like bushings are the way to go. Are the Whiteline Cross Member Inserts the same thing as subframe inserts?

And I guess what is confusing me about the insert installation is that I don't understand the whole process.

I guess it starts with lifting the car, taking off the wheels, but then what? Most of the threads just seem to have pics of people having difficulty removing the bushings and such but I don't know what happens before that for them to get to that point haha.

Thanks for all of the help!

I think so on the incerts. My invoice says x member so must be the same

[Rob@WretchedMS]

Installation on the inserts is not that hard, the cradle (subframe/xmember) is bolted to the car with 4 bolts. removing the catback helps, but you can typically do the inserts with out dropping the exhaust down.

Support the car with jackstands by the unibody jack points, and use the jack to support the subframe,
Loosen the subframe bolts on one side (but not remove), and then remove them on the side you have the jack, then lower the cradle down a bit, you might need a pry bar to get the subframe to clear the dowels that center the subframe, Once you have the inserts pushed in to the stock bushings, jack the subframe back up, install the bolts a few turns so that they will support the subframe, and then do the other side, lather, rinse repeat.

if i can help with anything let me know.

[Eaglerulez]

Thanks everybody! The inserts definitely seem like the way to go, and at a little over $100 they seem like a steal. I will probably place my order for them when I get back from Vegas next week.

And I doubt my V6 will ever see more than 400 crank horsepower (if that) so I think inserts should be more than enough in comparison to full bushings.

I know everybody asks this, but is the feel noticeable?

[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by Eaglerulez

Thanks everybody! The inserts definitely seem like the way to go, and at a little over $100 they seem like a steal. I will probably place my order for them when I get back from Vegas next week.

And I doubt my V6 will ever see more than 400 crank horsepower (if that) so I think inserts should be more than enough in comparison to full bushings.

I know everybody asks this, but is the feel noticeable?

I think you will. Makes the rear more stable, helps with wheel hop and in drag racing helps keep the rear from stepping out to the right, and in auto x or cornering keeps the rear in place

[caverman]

Originally Posted by Eaglerulez

Thanks everybody! The inserts definitely seem like the way to go, and at a little over $100 they seem like a steal. I will probably place my order for them when I get back from Vegas next week.

And I doubt my V6 will ever see more than 400 crank horsepower (if that) so I think inserts should be more than enough in comparison to full bushings.

I know everybody asks this, but is the feel noticeable?

Inserts should be good enough for what you have and if for some reason down the road you decide to go to a full bush you can pull these out and sell them for probably 1/2 the cost.

Without a doubt I felt a much firmer rear when I added my inserts. I initially started with the Hotchkis rear brace because of ease of install. Never really felt anything with that one and it didn't improve my drag times. I then put in the inserts and could feel them right away. So, Hotchkis brace came off and was sold to help buy some coilovers.

I think you'll be happy with the inserts and like you said, the cost is pretty reasonable.

The biggest issue I remember having was getting the big washers to come off initially. There are a handfull of ways you can do it but I found that using a two hammer approach worked best for me. Look at the pic in post #114.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=134107&page=5