[cooper1965]

.

[Jason@JacFab]

Hmm IDK... GM states the 2.0t is not meant to compete with the EcoBoost, and maintains that the v6 is supposed to be it's competing option. Just because Ford is dropping the v6 for 2018 doesn't mean GM will. They just spend a bunch of money on the LGX platform. It will surely continue to be used in the Colorado (which I think is stupid, it should just have the 4.3), and probably the Camaro...

[b0bsaget007]

Originally Posted by Jason@JacFab

They just spend a bunch of money on the LGX platform. It will surely continue to be used in the Colorado (which I think is stupid, it should just have the 4.3), and probably the Camaro...

... as well as pretty much the whole Cadillac family of cars, including (but not limited to) ATS, CTS, CT6, and XT5.

[6th_gen_gino]

Originally Posted by cooper1965

I don't think GM will drop the LGX, or the ALPHA platform... Just from the camaro. And it's just a smart move to bump up the LTG, and drop the LGX.
Historically, camaro and stang tend too follow suit.

I do agree they follow suit, but I don't think that means drop the LGX, but will surely mean a bump for the i4 in power. It's just a matter of sales at this point.

[Evil-Bee-NH]

The problem GM has here is that same dogma they held for generations of Camaros. That they cannot go faster and be more powerful then a Corvette. Now that dogma has changed quite a bit finally and to great effect for them. However their current line-up of engines the only real V6 option is the TT option and though not rated as high as the LT1 it is dangerously close to it and I don't see Camaro following Caddy and putting two factory turbocharged options in the same car. Only time will tell bumping the I4 is a little pointless in my mind as well though I fully condone the idea of course it'd be wiser to offer a track spec version like they've been teasing for years now with the AutoX concept add a few custom power upgrades to it from the factory and call it a day.

[ChicagoTommy]

Originally Posted by Evil-Bee-NH

The problem GM has here is that same dogma they held for generations of Camaros. That they cannot go faster and be more powerful then a Corvette. Now that dogma has changed quite a bit finally and to great effect for them. However their current line-up of engines the only real V6 option is the TT option and though not rated as high as the LT1 it is dangerously close to it and I don't see Camaro following Caddy and putting two factory turbocharged options in the same car. Only time will tell bumping the I4 is a little pointless in my mind as well though I fully condone the idea of course it'd be wiser to offer a track spec version like they've been teasing for years now with the AutoX concept add a few custom power upgrades to it from the factory and call it a day.

I agree. LGX isn't goin anywhere anytime soon. Too much money invested, and the press LOVES it.

Now what they need to do is drop the base price of the 1SS below the Mustang. $34k vs. $37k. And start putting VIN's on COPO's and compete with the Dodge Demon! Now that would be awesome!

[geoffchad]

If GM wanted a 300hp I4 turbo they'd have built up the 2.5L instead of the 2.0L. The hp/liter of the EB Mustang would still only be 124hp/liter, which is still LESS than the 136hp/liter of the LTG.

If GM managed to make a 2.5L with the power density of the LTG it'd have 340hp and like 370lb/ft of torque.

If they wanted to, they would have done it by now.

[Jason@JacFab]

Originally Posted by geoffchad

If GM wanted a 300hp I4 turbo they'd have built up the 2.5L instead of the 2.0L. The hp/liter of the EB Mustang would still only be 124hp/liter, which is still LESS than the 136hp/liter of the LTG.

If GM managed to make a 2.5L with the power density of the LTG it'd have 340hp and like 370lb/ft of torque.

If they wanted to, they would have done it by now.

Good point. As I've already pointed out, the bosses for the turbo coolant and oil drain backs are already in the 2.5 block, just not machined. So they are using the same "mold" for the blocks, at least on the outside... Perhaps they had it in mind to do a 2.5 turbo at some point... Or perhaps, they just did it as a cost savings... Who knows...

[geoffchad]

Originally Posted by Jason@JacFab

Good point. As I've already pointed out, the bosses for the turbo coolant and oil drain backs are already in the 2.5 block, just not machined. So they are using the same "mold" for the blocks, at least on the outside... Perhaps they had it in mind to do a 2.5 turbo at some point... Or perhaps, they just did it as a cost savings... Who knows...

A 2.5L T was designed, prototyped, and tested. The theory being with the same external dimensions and mounting locations of the LTG you could effectively make the car compatible with a V6 equivalent in power without any of the packaging/engineering/supply considerations.

As many manufacturers are trying to "engineer out" V6s across their line a cost/complexity savings and make 2.0Ts the new "base V6" it'd allow GM engineers to give a car like the malibu or regal 260-270hp without breaking a sweat but if an AWD sport or GS variant needed the extra oomph a couple years into a model run you could drop a de-tuned 2.5T (to match needed power and/or transaxle torque limit) and call it a day without any headaches.

[RedonBlackRS]

Gawd, a 2.5T with 340-350 hp and 370-400 lb-ft would just be amazing. However, that'd be creeping up on the 3.0TT power-wise, and not be nearly as smooth or sound half as good.

I think the best option would be to replace both the 2.0T and 3.6 with the 3.0TT (and this goes for all of the future Alpha/Omega cars), especially with Cadillac's 4.2TT V8 around the corner.

However, I know this is just wishful thinking and GM will let their powertrains age in the eyes of the public before they're forced to change something.

[rorymick]

Pretty sure a lot of us are now considering bigger boost ideas for our cars. Upgraded turbo sales are gonna go up aren't they lol

[ChicagoTommy]

Originally Posted by rorymick

Pretty sure a lot of us are now considering bigger boost ideas for our cars. Upgraded turbo sales are gonna go up aren't they lol

I sure hope so!

[ChicagoTommy]

Originally Posted by cooper1965

That is a TRUE. But, the mid-engine Vette is coming, and it will change that car, allowing more room for Camaro performance.

Honestly, ... We all know GM is not going to let the mustang beat the camaro in all trim levels.. The 18'GT , and 18SS are dead locked now. And the base engine 18' Stang destroy's the TWO lower trim 18' camaro offerings by GM.
The 19 refresh will most likely address all trim levels...Well, it better anyway.
I still think, they cut an engine option, and entry level car should be detuned 3.0TT... Talk about sales.. Who would buy a base stang 4-cylinder over, a base camaro 3.0TT ?

Dream big, huh. I don't see that happening at all, ever. The cost of the 3.0tt makes it a non-starter in a base model car.

[geoffchad]

Originally Posted by RedonBlackRS

I think the best option would be to replace both the 2.0T and 3.6 with the 3.0TT (and this goes for all of the future Alpha/Omega cars),

No way. Cost aside (the 3.0TT is extremely expensive by comparison) it's straight up too much power for a lot of drivers - and in some markets the base insurance on the vehicle would be higher, increasing the cost of ownership, which would hurt sales and residuals. That's one of the reasons the 4th gen Camaro died in 2002.

To put it in perspective in the UK, the BMW 318i comes with a 1.5L I3 with 136hp or the 320i with a 2.0L I4 with 184hp or the 330i with a 2.0L I4 with 252hp.

The same idea holds true in China as well, which is the market du jour - 200hp in a 3400lb car is FINE for a majority of drivers and PLENTY for those that live in cities and never drive fast anyway and are more interested in owning a BMW than having a BMW that's fast.

This is more relevant for the stable mates at Cadillac (even though the brand has exited the idea of taking on Europe and is just sticking to China) than the Camaro because globally a base engine with 260hp is pretty extreme and the Camaro isn't as global a vehicle - but saying a base engine should be 350hp or above actually risks "hairdresser" sales that want a styling car that's quick and sporty and don't want to be terrified when they put their foot to the floor.

For the ATS, dropping the 2.5L *was* the right move, but it actually did hurt sales as a LOT of people were plenty fine with 200hp and couldn't afford the higher-priced ATS variants. The Camaro could/would have the same problem - keeping cost down on the base model and having it be well equipped is REALLY important.