[Posaune]

Originally Posted by nbryant

Improve the looks? Nothing wrong with the looks but to each his own, unless they made it more 'stang like, then I might get upset.

Nothing was wrong with the looks of the 6th gen in 2006 either...nah mean?

Seriously, I like the looks of the 6th gen, just not for the 6th gen. For as big of a change in performance and structure, the 6th gen should have had a bigger change stylistically.

[Thor142]

I'm not buying that the looks of the Gen 6 are an issue at all. It's a great looking car. As much as you can say looks are subjective you can also make almost anyone want almost anything with the right marketing. I'm sure most of us here are old enough to remember some of the fads we lived though and say WTF was I thinking.
On the other hand I would hate to be on a design team that has to figure out what style everyone was going to want, try my best to come up with it and then have ZERO advertising support for it after release as well as a high price tag.

Boo GM.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by Thor142

I'm not buying that the looks of the Gen 6 are an issue at all. It's a great looking car. As much as you can say looks are subjective you can also make almost anyone want almost anything with the right marketing. I'm sure most of us here are old enough to remember some of the fads we lived though and say WTF was I thinking.
On the other hand I would hate to be on a design team that has to figure out what style everyone was going to want, try my best to come up with it and then have ZERO advertising support for it after release as well as a high price tag.

Boo GM.

Amen.

[SayHelloToMyLittleFriend]

IMHO, GM is taking the Camaro up market and targeting the BMW M3's and the likes. Hence the heftier price tag. Performancewise, no doubt, the Camaro is the better car than the current Mustang or even the new M3. Bang for your performance buck, the Camaro rules!

Al Oppenheiser in an interview said something along the lines that the Camaro is something you buy because you WANT to drive it not because you have to.

[HogsFan75]

Originally Posted by SayHelloToMyLittleFriend

IMHO, GM is taking the Camaro up market and targeting the BMW M3's and the likes. Hence the heftier price tag. Performancewise, no doubt, the Camaro is the better car than the current Mustang or even the new M3. Bang for your performance buck, the Camaro rules!

Al Oppenheiser in an interview said something along the lines that the Camaro is something you buy because you WANT to drive it not because you have to.

Just because you want to move a car to a new segment doesn't mean it's going to work.

The Camaro has always been a car for blue collar car guys for the most part. Now it's reaching Vette territory. It's no wonder the sales are so bad. The traditional target demographic can't afford it.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by HogsFan75

Just because you want to move a car to a new segment doesn't mean it's going to work.

The Camaro has always been a car for blue collar car guys for the most part. Now it's reaching Vette territory. It's no wonder the sales are so bad. The traditional target demographic can't afford it.

The prices of all new cars continues to rise. If you consider that the average price of a new car is now $33k, it may change your perception on pricing.

You can buy a Camaro for $30k or Toyota or Honda minivan for $30k. You can also buy a Camaro for $50k, but you can also spend $50k on the same minivan if you load it up with options.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by SayHelloToMyLittleFriend

IMHO, GM is taking the Camaro up market and targeting the BMW M3's and the likes. Hence the heftier price tag. Performancewise, no doubt, the Camaro is the better car than the current Mustang or even the new M3. Bang for your performance buck, the Camaro rules!

Al Oppenheiser in an interview said something along the lines that the Camaro is something you buy because you WANT to drive it not because you have to.

You gotta ask yourself if that's really your opinion or if you've heard it repeated enough times that you believe it.

You don't simply take a product and move it up market. That requires more than performance. It would take a long, expensive and brilliant advertising campaign.
You never know. All this "moving the camaro up market" stuff might be the beginning of said campaign. People love to repeat catch phrases.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Thor142

You gotta ask yourself if that's really your opinion or if you've heard it repeated enough times that you believe it.

You don't simply take a product and move it up market. That requires more than performance. It would take a long, expensive and brilliant advertising campaign.
You never know. All this "moving the camaro up market" stuff might be the beginning of said campaign. People love to repeat catch phrases.

You gotta ask yourself if you're justifying your decision to buy a 15 1LE.

[Raven87]

IMHO, the Camaro will never be seen as a BMW competitor. Never. Not that it is not as good a car - because it is. Not that it cannot outperform the M BMW - because it can.

It is because it is a Chevrolet Camaro. GM can do all they want to try to convince the buying public that this wonderful car is on the same footing with the same buying demographic as a BMW buyer but they are only believing their own hype.

Even the Corvette is not truly a BMW cross-shop item.

So if GM wants to compete with BMW, GM needs to build a BMW equivalent, make it BETTER than a BMW and advertise the hell out of it. But to simply try to push the Camaro from its grass roots marketing segment up a notch or two to BMW land will be a colossal failure for a bunch of reasons.

Higher price and better features do NOT equate to more sales. We are seeing that harsh reality now.

Embrace the Camaro for what it is - an outstanding pony/muscle car with unparalleled performance.

[triggerjerk]

Originally Posted by Raven87

IMHO, the Camaro will never be seen as a BMW competitor. Never. Not that it is not as good a car - because it is. Not that it cannot outperform the M BMW - because it can.

It is because it is a Chevrolet Camaro. GM can do all they want to try to convince the buying public that this wonderful car is on the same footing with the same buying demographic as a BMW buyer but they are only believing their own hype.

Even the Corvette is not truly a BMW cross-shop item.

So if GM wants to compete with BMW, GM needs to build a BMW equivalent, make it BETTER than a BMW and advertise the hell out of it. But to simply try to push the Camaro from its grass roots marketing segment up a notch or two to BMW land will be a colossal failure for a bunch of reasons.

Higher price and better features do NOT equate to more sales. We are seeing that harsh reality now.

Embrace the Camaro for what it is - an outstanding pony/muscle car with unparalleled performance.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Raven87

IMHO, the Camaro will never be seen as a BMW competitor. Never. Not that it is not as good a car - because it is. Not that it cannot outperform the M BMW - because it can.

It is because it is a Chevrolet Camaro. GM can do all they want to try to convince the buying public that this wonderful car is on the same footing with the same buying demographic as a BMW buyer but they are only believing their own hype.

Even the Corvette is not truly a BMW cross-shop item.

So if GM wants to compete with BMW, GM needs to build a BMW equivalent, make it BETTER than a BMW and advertise the hell out of it. But to simply try to push the Camaro from its grass roots marketing segment up a notch or two to BMW land will be a colossal failure for a bunch of reasons.

Higher price and better features do NOT equate to more sales. We are seeing that harsh reality now.

Embrace the Camaro for what it is - an outstanding pony/muscle car with unparalleled performance.

And what you just described, is Cadillac's job, not Chevrolet

Yes new car prices are rising and when you tick option boxes they can all get pricey fast. However all cars, seem to know their place in the market. Performance wise, its amazing that the Camaro is punching way above it's weight class but at the end of the day it is still a Camaro, it still wears a bow tie and still competes with the Mustang and challenger.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by hotlap

You gotta ask yourself if you're justifying your decision to buy a 15 1LE.

What's that supposed to mean? lmao

[mt3130]

Originally Posted by Raven87

IMHO, the Camaro will never be seen as a BMW competitor. Never. Not that it is not as good a car - because it is. Not that it cannot outperform the M BMW - because it can.

It is because it is a Chevrolet Camaro. GM can do all they want to try to convince the buying public that this wonderful car is on the same footing with the same buying demographic as a BMW buyer but they are only believing their own hype.

Even the Corvette is not truly a BMW cross-shop item.

So if GM wants to compete with BMW, GM needs to build a BMW equivalent, make it BETTER than a BMW and advertise the hell out of it. But to simply try to push the Camaro from its grass roots marketing segment up a notch or two to BMW land will be a colossal failure for a bunch of reasons.

Higher price and better features do NOT equate to more sales. We are seeing that harsh reality now.

Embrace the Camaro for what it is - an outstanding pony/muscle car with unparalleled performance.

Agree with everything you said.

GM has its work cut out trying to get Cadillac to be seen as a competitor to the German brands. The cars falling under the Chevy brand have an even tougher time making that claim, even if the performance is on par with the best the Germans have to offer.

We know that the SS is on par with an M4. We also know that the average person would choose to buy a BMW 328 or 428 over a Camaro SS if given $45k.

[triggerjerk]

Originally Posted by mt3130

We know that the SS is on par with an M4. We also know that the average person would choose to buy a BMW 328 or 428 over a Camaro SS if given $45k.