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Old 03-03-2014, 05:12 PM   #939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl View Post
Why should GM do the push back? You (and all the other people in America) have the right to a vote, they don't. The point is that RWD V8 cars have become a one-off vehicle because of many of reasons. Even without CAFE they would not be self sustaining in today's market place unless their sales are supported by models that will sale in greater volumes. If it takes putting the LTG in the 6th Gen to ensure we can still have a model with the LT-1 at a reasonable price then I am all for it.
I live in California. My votes are overpowered by people who want everything to run off fairy dust and the hopes and dreams of small children.

GM had enough leverage to get billions of dollars from the government. Clearly, the government is more interested in what GM has to say than what I have to say. Maybe GM doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds in case they need a other bailout.
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:11 PM   #940
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Have the Camaro drop 500 lbs and put the 2.0 Ecotec LNF motor in it. GM has a tune that bumps HP to 300 and TQ to 350, those numbers combined with that massive weight loss would lead to a fun little car. Heck, I've got a DD Blazer Xtreme that has a curb weight of about 3600 lbs and I'm considering swapping in the LNF. The reduced weight with those power numbers and a nice 4:10 rear gear would give me a nice daily driver.
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:14 PM   #941
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Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
I live in California. My votes are overpowered by people who want everything to run off fairy dust and the hopes and dreams of small children.
That is the key to GM's delimma. When people vote with their pocket books they buy 4 bangers (about 10 cruze's for every camaro; 12 malibus, and so on), and when they vote at the polls they don't seem concerned about CAFE standards. How is it in their interest to risk ticking off the many to serve a few. Their best tactic is to keep eeking out the best fuel economy in the few big engines they sale and offset that with small engines where they can. I am personally more worried about CAFE impats on full-sized regular duty trucks than the Camaro.


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Old 03-03-2014, 08:45 PM   #942
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You have to remember, to many people on this website the Camaro history is only from 1969 to somewhere in the mid 70's, and then model year 2010+
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More like just 1969 and 2010-2013.
Very true. The fourth gen seems to get the worst of it on here. I won't badmouth it because from an engineering stand point it was always ahead of the Mustang. I'll admit it's my least favorite generation and I've owned 2. Still own one and it's been very good to me even as I grow tired of daily driving something that is so worn out.
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Old 03-04-2014, 07:36 AM   #943
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Forget a 4 cylindar, lets make it a hybrid!! Any takers
Lol
Our cars are already hybrids -- they burn fuel and rubber.
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Old 03-04-2014, 07:38 AM   #944
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Yep. What people fail to realize is without the 4 and 6 cylinders of the world, their precious V8s will definitely cease to exist.

And just sayin', GM just cracked the 300 HP mark with the 2.0T with the Astra GTC Extreme.
It didn't keep Camaro alive before and the Iron Duke was rated one of the 50 worst cars of all time.

I'll keep my SS a v8 thanks. When this "DYING" breed is gone ( I thought we were in a muscle car resurgence). I will stop buying chevy. When they change all Camaro's to Prius like you seem to want, I'm done with GM. I bet a lot will be. They can be banckrupt again making green crap only hippies want.
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Old 03-04-2014, 08:06 AM   #945
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Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl View Post
That is the key to GM's delimma. When people vote with their pocket books they buy 4 bangers (about 10 cruze's for every camaro; 12 malibus, and so on), and when they vote at the polls they don't seem concerned about CAFE standards. How is it in their interest to risk ticking off the many to serve a few. Their best tactic is to keep eeking out the best fuel economy in the few big engines they sale and offset that with small engines where they can. I am personally more worried about CAFE impats on full-sized regular duty trucks than the Camaro.


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I'm not saying you are wrong about cruzes and Camaro Gretchen, but if team Camaro starts making Camaro's Cruzes, then I might as well buy a Honda, put stripes, a wing and a fart can on it and call it a day.

The people who buy cruzes ( most). Have little choice. When I drove a crappy econo car it wasn't because it was what I always wanted!

People who drive Silverado super duty trucks don't want 4 cylinder underpowered gas sippin econo boxes.

People who are buying Camaro SS, ZL1 or Z-28 don't want a honda.
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Old 03-04-2014, 08:27 AM   #946
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It didn't keep Camaro alive before and the Iron Duke was rated one of the 50 worst cars of all time.

I'll keep my SS a v8 thanks. When this "DYING" breed is gone ( I thought we were in a muscle car resurgence). I will stop buying chevy. When they change all Camaro's to Prius like you seem to want, I'm done with GM. I bet a lot will be. They can be banckrupt again making green crap only hippies want.
You seem to blame this all on GM... Wow, have you been hiding in a cave or something? This is something that effects all manufacturers, not just GM. So stop blaming them and blame who is really at fault here.
You do realize it was almost 15 years after they stopped making 4 cylinder Camaros that the Camaro died....it definately was not the cause.
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:07 AM   #947
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Are you sure you haven't seen one? They were produced between 1982 and 1984 and I saw one just a few years ago at a car show.
Thanks for this information

In Europe, the Americans V8 are a symbol of American dream...

4 cylinders are boring: no good sound
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:18 AM   #948
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Not sure where you haven't seen one. They've definitely been made before. If they're economical and sell why wouldn't you want them to be around? I'm not saying they will sell or even exist in the near future but it's the same argument for the V6. If the V6 Camaro didn't exist you wouldn't be in your V8. They wouldn't sell nearly enough to justify keeping the Camaro around.

That being said, I would only buy a V8 Camaro. However I understand why people buy the other. Same goes for the morons who talk crap about people who drive automatics. Oh I'm less of a guy because I drive something different? Yea? My dick is really small. YOU GOT ME!

I've owned both manual and auto. Manual is fun for a while but it gets old in traffic. Especially when my sciatica flares up. :/
In europe we consider the American muscle cars as iconic cars.
There are many cheap European cars (even if they are sold more expensive than U.S. .......)
For this reason, we can not imagine legendary cars without an exceptional engine.
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:42 AM   #949
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The only four cylinder I want to see in a Camaro is a Big V-8 that has an Eco Mode to deactivate four of the cylinders when in top gear. Like the new Stingray, all the power you want/need when you want it, and a top gear that let's you run four cylinders for really decent MPGs.
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:45 AM   #950
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Originally Posted by revychevy View Post
I'm not saying you are wrong about cruzes and Camaro Gretchen, but if team Camaro starts making Camaro's Cruzes, then I might as well buy a Honda, put stripes, a wing and a fart can on it and call it a day.

The people who buy cruzes ( most). Have little choice. When I drove a crappy econo car it wasn't because it was what I always wanted!

People who drive Silverado super duty trucks don't want 4 cylinder underpowered gas sippin econo boxes.

People who are buying Camaro SS, ZL1 or Z-28 don't want a honda.
I'm not sure if we are agreeing or disagreeing. I don't think any of us want the Camaro to turn into a 2-door Cruze. The essence of the Camaro is a sports coupe. If we are to have versions with a V8 then they will be at the upper end of the price range and they will have to be supported by a less powerful engine, more mainstream engine in the base model. What does it matter if that's a V6 or a turbo 4? To me, it doesn't matter at all if the performance is there.

What killed the RWD V8 sedan was people wanted SUVs. GM was smart putting the L99 in the Camaro and smart again building the LT-1 for trucks and cars. However, with CAFE hitting regular-duty trucks, in addition to SUVs, something will have to give there. What happens if the only way GM, Ford, etc.. can give us the power we want in a truck with the fuel economy standards coming down the pipe is via small turbo diesels? That reduces the number of platforms for a gasoline V8 again. How low a volume of those engines can they go without pricing them out of the range of most of Camaro buyers? It isn't the car manufactures fault demand for V8s in cars has decreased and fuel economy standards make them difficult to support in other platforms. We, the Camaro enthusiasts, are really a small bunch. We may want the V8, but if we resist GMs attempts to keep giving us one in the future by saying no to turbo 4s, then the Camaro may die again and it will be our own fault, not GMs.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:00 AM   #951
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Originally Posted by Angrybird 12 View Post
You seem to blame this all on GM... Wow, have you been hiding in a cave or something? This is something that effects all manufacturers, not just GM. So stop blaming them and blame who is really at fault here.
You do realize it was almost 15 years after they stopped making 4 cylinder Camaros that the Camaro died....it definately was not the cause.
No I haven't been in a cave. I KNOW who is at fault but didn't want to get into a political argument when we are discussing cars. The only thing I can do is not buy crappy CAFE econo boxes. If the manufacturers can't sell that crap, maybe THEY will push back.

They DID stop making 4 cylinder Camaro's though-- and they WERE crap.

I'm not a young guy either, 50 yrs old and never impressed with "fun little sporty Hondas." I'm not intending to blame CAFE on GM alone. (I'm not a fan of politicians sitting around and picking arbitrary fuel standards in order to undermine one industry in favor of another.)

But at this point I will say I'm not going to be in the market for a Camaro that is like a Honda. I might as well buy the Honda if the things I liked about American muscle cars goes away.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:15 AM   #952
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No I haven't been in a cave. I KNOW who is at fault but didn't want to get into a political argument when we are discussing cars. The only thing I can do is not buy crappy CAFE econo boxes. If the manufacturers can't sell that crap, maybe THEY will push back.

They DID stop making 4 cylinder Camaro's though-- and they WERE crap.

I'm not a young guy either, 50 yrs old and never impressed with "fun little sporty Hondas." I'm not intending to blame CAFE on GM alone. (I'm not a fan of politicians sitting around and picking arbitrary fuel standards in order to undermine one industry in favor of another.)

But at this point I will say I'm not going to be in the market for a Camaro that is like a Honda. I might as well buy the Honda if the things I liked about American muscle cars goes away.
So you must remember the Camaros of the 70's when we had V8's with less than 200HP, I had a 74 with a 350 V8 rated at 145HP. Was that fast? No, was that really sporty, No, but it was still a Camaro. Like it or not it's the future for the entire auto industry. V8's will be available but whether they will be affordable to the average consumer is going to be questionable.
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