[Ray3768]

I checked my 2024 2SS, built 11/23, last night. Sadly, there's no PBC plaque.


-Ray

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Ray3768

I checked my 2024 2SS, built 11/23, last night. Sadly, there's no PBC plaque.


-Ray

It's a nice touch for sure, but there is no difference between these LT1s and the ones we have in our cars.

[Junction65]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

It's a nice touch for sure, but there is no difference in the parts between these LT1s and the ones we have in our cars.

FIFY

The parts are the same, its the assembly process that is the difference. Assembly line vs single builder.

No Watches Allowed: Inside Chevrolet's Secretive Performance Build Center

Even though the A10 cars are "quicker"(drag racing), the PBC engine and build process was one of caveats in deciding to go with a M6 car for my build.

Also there was an poster here very familiar with the process and stated that even though Chevy was going to continue with putting PBC LT1s in M6 Camaros, the engines would not display the plaque. Looks like they did indeed phase the plaque out during the '23MY run.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Junction65

FIFY

The parts are the same, its the assembly process that is the difference. Assembly line vs single builder.

No Watches Allowed: Inside Chevrolet's Secretive Performance Build Center

Even though the A10 cars are "quicker"(drag racing), the PBC engine and build process was one of caveats in deciding to go with a M6 car for my build.

Also there was an poster here very familiar with the process and stated that even though Chevy was going to continue with putting PBC LT1s in M6 Camaros, the engines would not display the plaque. Looks like they did indeed phase the plaque out during the '23MY run.

Heh, nice "fix", full of old school nostalgia Okay, fun and quips aside, thousands of diagnostic tests are run on the engine after assembly, so the end result is fully tested in either case, and there are advantages to both assembly methods.

For example, no one can manually torque 10-12-16 bolts down perfectly to spec simultaneously, which is the absolute best method for attaching parts like heads or the supercharger lid; at the same time, machines cannot respond to unexpected siuations or vary the process a bit to fix an edge case like a human does.

To make this call correctly, we would need to see actual failure/trouble stats for both assembly types, and I'm not sure we ever will.

[Iconic]

Originally Posted by Junction65

Also there was an poster here very familiar with the process and stated that even though Chevy was going to continue with putting PBC LT1s in M6 Camaros, the engines would not display the plaque. Looks like they did indeed phase the plaque out during the '23MY run.

Please elaborate. Did all M6 Camaros get a PBC LT1? What model years? I ask this for all PBC LT1s regardless if they recieved a plaque or not.

[Junction65]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Heh, nice "fix", full of old school nostalgia Okay, fun and quips aside, there are thousands of diagnostic tests run on the engine after assembly, so the end result is fully tested in either case, and there are advantages to both assembly methods.

For example, no one can manually torque 10-12-16 bolts down perfectly to spec simultaneously, which is the absolute best method for attaching parts like heads or the supercharger lid; at the same time, machines cannot respond to unexpected siuations or vary the process a bit to fix an edge case like a human does.

To make this call correctly, we would need to see actual failure/trouble stats for both assembly types, and I'm not sure we ever will.

Nothing I stated was inaccurate or false nor am I arguing any of the points you posted. I merely stated it was factor in my decision and posted an article which gives insight in to the process for those interested in the PBC engines.

Is there a Perfect Engine Club for the assembly line engines?

[WhiteMale]

assembled doesn't mean hand built or certainly not balanced and blueprinted, I only took it as a bit of a novelty and certainly interesting but is one better than the other...in this context, no.

[LateBrakeU2]

Originally Posted by Iconic

Please elaborate. Did all M6 Camaros get a PBC LT1? What model years? I ask this for all PBC LT1s regardless if they recieved a plaque or not.

No, there was a production range on Camaro's from 20-23 covid related. These PBC motors were apparentely dedicated for C7's and when they switched to C8 production some LT1's received them hence the plaque. I have both a 23 LT1 and 23 2SS1LE, the 1LE was built 11/22 and has one, the LT1 i special ordered and was built 7/23 and does not. Don't think any 24's have them, at least not documented yet but most likely they stopped / ran out of those somewhere end of 22. Here's the original thread
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=579447

[Junction65]

Originally Posted by LateBrakeU2

No, there was a production range on Camaro's from 20-23 covid related. These PBC motors were apparentely dedicated for C7's and when they switched to C8 production some LT1's received them hence the plaque. I have both a 23 LT1 and 23 2SS1LE, the 1LE was built 11/22 and has one, the LT1 i special ordered and was built 7/23 and does not. Don't think any 24's have them, at least not documented yet but most likely they stopped / ran out of those somewhere end of 22. Here's the original thread
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=579447

Unless someone can provide factual proof otherwise, bolded part is currently considered an internet myth.

Dug up the old post I was referring to:

PBC Engines

Just had a long conversation with one of the engine builders from the PBC regarding the engine plaques. He asked me not to mention his name and I will honor that request.
All engines are currently built to order, there is no stock pile. The LT1 engine is built about one month ahead of the car build.
All engines, auto or manual are exactly the same. They all have the same lifters, power output is determined by the programming etc but the engines are identical, no difference
All 6 speed manual assigned engines are built at PBC. The LT1 is otherwise a production line engine and therefore many more produced in the same period. He mentioned they may build 200 per shift while PBC builds 300 per week. Because the manual represents a small percentage of the total builds the PBC is responsible for those engines.
Some auto engines are built at PBC but they are not allowed to put their tag on the auto engines except for the LT4 engine with automatic. This is because the auto engines are from another plant and PBC only assembles a few of them. Kind of crazy thinking but...
Because of the social media posts about the engine plaques and the idea that some owners may feel jilted about this they are going to end the practice of installing build plaques on the PBC engines. Management feels that it causes confusion on behalf of the customer. Hmmm probably true.
There is a group at the PBC called the "perfect ten" These ten assemblers have the best record of perfection, something like ten perfect engines in a row. I'm also a lucky owner of a "perfect ten" engine assembler. Pretty cool.

Note the engine builder even stated "All engines, auto or manual are exactly the same." and "the engines are identical, no difference" however then states "they(assembly line) may build 200 per shift while PBC builds 300 per week."

Each to his own...you don't have a PBC engine, good for you no worries. I wanted one so that's what I bought.

[m6-lt1]

Just wanted to state that the left over C7 engine rumor is definitely a myth. GM is a JIT manufacturer (Just in time) like all other major manufacturers. There’s no way they just had a stock pile of c7 engines that lasted from 2020-mid 2023. Even if they were for the c7 the engines are identical regardless outside of the intake tube and exhaust manifolds that are camaro specific.

I remember reading the bit posted above from the unnamed PBC engine builder. Personally I hope it’s true since I have a late 23 without the plaque but as with everything I read on the internet I take it with a grain of salt.

Whether or not I have a PBC engine I know it’s in no way better than a non PBC engine. They have the same crappy afm lifters. I also feel like I’ve seen way more engine failures of 2020+ vehicles than 16-19 but I could be wrong about that. Based on what I feel I’ve seen on these forums, the precovid engines seem to be holding up better. 2020’s had a known valve spring issue. 21/22’s seem to have more lifter failures than the older engines. I know for the trucks they definitely have been having lifter issues on those model years. Hoping 23’s and 24’s are fairing better.

[LateBrakeU2]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

Just wanted to state that the left over C7 engine rumor is definitely a myth. GM is a JIT manufacturer (Just in time) like all other major manufacturers. There’s no way they just had a stock pile of c7 engines that lasted from 2020-mid 2023. Even if they were for the c7 the engines are identical regardless outside of the intake tube and exhaust manifolds that are camaro specific.

I remember reading the bit posted above from the unnamed PBC engine builder. Personally I hope it’s true since I have a late 23 without the plaque but as with everything I read on the internet I take it with a grain of salt.

Whether or not I have a PBC engine I know it’s in no way better than a non PBC engine. They have the same crappy afm lifters. I also feel like I’ve seen way more engine failures of 2020+ vehicles than 16-19 but I could be wrong about that. Based on what I feel I’ve seen on these forums, the precovid engines seem to be holding up better. 2020’s had a known valve spring issue. 21/22’s seem to have more lifter failures than the older engines. I know for the trucks they definitely have been having lifter issues on those model years. Hoping 23’s and 24’s are fairing better.

They may be a JIT mfg, but my 2015 Z/28 has an LS7 that was'left over' from C5 production, and i had a 79 W66 L72 Firebird Formula had had a 400 motor which came from a pallet of motors GM had produced at least a year prior. I have no factual data to support anything, that's why i prefaced it with "apparentely". Myth or otherwise, GM over build motors for CE replacement and has been doing that for 60 years. They never throw anything away( hence CE 24's) and with covid shortages it does sound plausible but yeah, no diiference at best a badge of honor,pun intended.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by LateBrakeU2

They may be a JIT mfg, but my 2015 Z/28 has an LS7 that was'left over' from C5 production, and i had a 79 W66 L72 Firebird Formula had had a 400 motor which came from a pallet of motors GM had produced at least a year prior. I have no factual data to support anything, that's why i prefaced it with "apparentely". Myth or otherwise, GM over build motors for CE replacement and has been doing that for 60 years. They never throw anything away( hence CE 24's) and with covid shortages it does sound plausible but yeah, no diiference at best a badge of honor,pun intended.

No one from GM confirmed the ls7 being leftovers for the z28. Just another internet guess.

[LateBrakeU2]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

No one from GM confirmed the ls7 being leftovers for the z28. Just another internet guess.

It is common knowledge the LS7 wouldn't be emissions compliant for the next gen of cars, GM had a few thousand sitting on pallets at Wixom with nothing to put them in. Then Al O convinced the brass to green light a hot rod parts bin track weapon,which took care of those motors. Not exactly an internet guess.