[Johnfin]

What type of freon do the new camaros take?

[olrocker]

1234yf. Newer cars no longer use 134-a.

[Johnfin]

Why is the stuff so expensive.

[Deacon Blues]

Originally Posted by Johnfin

Why is the stuff so expensive.

Relative rarity compared to the old stuff. It's only been in use for the past decade or so. IIRC there is also a patent expiring soon, which will lead to more manufacturers producing it and (hopefully) lowering prices.

[wavsine]

Originally Posted by Johnfin

Why is the stuff so expensive.

and flammable, toxic and corrosive....

Answer: It is more environmentally friendly. It's just you that will be injured by the stuff. Environment will be fine.

[MT-SS1LE]

The goal of these climate change cults is to eventually make a/c so expensive that no one can afford to have it or repair it, in your car or house. Every year the EPA makes car manufacturers use more expensive and inferior refrigerants. Notice how modern a/c doesn't get nearly as cold as it did 10+ years ago? And it costs 4X as much to repair it or refill it. It's all by design, to accomplish an extremist agenda.

[Deacon Blues]

Originally Posted by wavsine

Answer: It is more environmentally friendly. It's just you that will be injured by the stuff. Environment will be fine.

I'm so relieved that the government is looking out for me.

[olrocker]

My ‘85 Regal with 130,000 miles still had great air conditioning after 12 years. With the old R-12 you could throw the switch to Max when you get into it in the middle of a hot day with the sun beating down and you could hang meat in it after 30 seconds.

Haven’t owned a car with 134 or 1234 since that could come close.

[Evergreen6]

When 1234yf is released into the environment, it takes a couple of weeks to break down versus more than a decade for R134a. That's a big plus. A lot of refrigerant gets released into the atmosphere.

R12 is extremely toxic to humans (including being carcinogenic) and its really bad for the environment (including getting into groundwater and forming smog).

R134a is kind of a middle ground, not as toxic, but still pretty bad for the environment.

1234yf has a few advantages. Cooling systems can be smaller and still achieve the same output, and it requires less energy to produce cooling. That's important for electric heat pumps, which are common in EV's, but may see their way into ICV's too--because they work really, really well. Belt-driven AC compressors rob horsepower, they're heavy, and take up space under the hood, and they have to spin whether they're being used or not.

Cost? 3 8oz cans go for about $100 and most vehicle take 1-1.5 lbs. 1lb = 16oz.

It's finding shops that have all the newer equipment and techs trained on the refrigerant if you want someone else to do the work, and that does cost money.

[Efi69Cam]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

When 1234yf is released into the environment, it takes a couple of weeks to break down versus more than a decade for R134a. That's a big plus. A lot of refrigerant gets released into the atmosphere.

R12 is extremely toxic to humans (including being carcinogenic) and its really bad for the environment (including getting into groundwater and forming smog).

R134a is kind of a middle ground, not as toxic, but still pretty bad for the environment.

1234yf has a few advantages. Cooling systems can be smaller and still achieve the same output, and it requires less energy to produce cooling. That's important for electric heat pumps, which are common in EV's, but may see their way into ICV's too--because they work really, really well. Belt-driven AC compressors rob horsepower, they're heavy, and take up space under the hood, and they have to spin whether they're being used or not.

Cost? 3 8oz cans go for about $100 and most vehicle take 1-1.5 lbs. 1lb = 16oz.

It's finding shops that have all the newer equipment and techs trained on the refrigerant if you want someone else to do the work, and that does cost money.

Heat pump, Wtf do you think an ac is?

https://www.carrier.com/residential/...-does-it-work/

[easttxss]

I got lucky with mine as the switch over to 1234YF happened some time in 2016. Mine is 134A and I have owned gauges for that since 1990. Still have my 'refrigerant license' too that I got when I was working at a Houston Nissan dealer (free, open book, ASE test).

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by Efi69Cam

Heat pump, Wtf do you think an ac is?

https://www.carrier.com/residential/...-does-it-work/

An Air Conditioner is specifically for cooling. The refrigerant flow isn't reversible. Can you make heat with an evaporator in a vehicle? Nope. It only cools in most automotive AC setups. An engine-coolant fed heater core supplies heat.

I have an electric heat pump for my home, and we have a heat pump in our EV which is obviously not belt-driven off an engine. We also have belt-driven AC pumps in our ICV's, and they only cool, because they're air conditioners only, not heat pumps. I've also had AC-only installations in my home, and they only cool, because they are not considered heat pumps. Heating has to be supplied by an alternate source.

[GreyGhost702]

You can switch the car over to 134a, if one wanted to. The process isn't difficult, but short of having a leak or having to make a repair that will remove the 1234YF crap, there's really no point to. Still, at best the cost savings are somewhat marginal today. I mean marginal in the sense that, if you're driving a Camaro and you're choked up about a $50 can of 1234YF, I have to wonder how you feel about 10 quart oil changes. Yeah, that's about 500% more expensive than 134A, but in terms of smoke and fire coming from your wallet, it's a mild simmer at best. One of those fuel door covers from Phastek is like $230... and it's just a piece of decorative plastic... Messing with A/C refrigerant is (should) be once in a blue moon. A time or two in a cars life. It only takes 1 or 2 cans depending on what you're doing. Now taking it to a shop and having it done, that's another matter entirely but that is a fact no matter what service you have done. At that point the refrigerant isn't boning you, the shop is.

[Evergreen6]

And who's worried about flammable 1234yf at 1650 degrees when propane is commonly used as a refrigerant in other refrigeration systems. Using propane in an automotive AC system is a not-unheard of redneck AC fix.




Guess everyone isn't also aware they're carrying around ~15 gallons of gasoline too when they're supposedly worried about how flammable 1234yf is. lol