Why on earth would going N/A be considered a waste of money and time

[SPCBA]

Originally Posted by axis

That's a matter of opinion and yours is skewed. I've driven big cammed cars and they drive nothing like stock. I don't care who your tuner is, getting a big enough cam to make 500+whp idle well and have good street manners is impossible. A FI car drives completely like stock until you get on it. There's no comparison for daily driving.

i am 450 n/a with a tiny cam and stock driveability....but i drive an auto and have the stock stall as well...i could easily hit 500 wheel and still be withen the realm of a car guys daily driver driveability...but that would require a bit more of a stall. again i think the auto helps me a great deal in keeping the stock driveability....vvt is a wonderful tool

i think a lot of it does have to do with a tune...drove a huge cam turbo4 car to highschool...now that wasnt very fun to drive around a parking lot. technology is a wonderful thing

to each their own I just dont like boost or juice others just dont like cams

[Ken_]

How many people here need 500+ whp on a daily basis anyway? Going even further, how many people have even had the experience of a 500+ whp car? It doesn't seem to matter which car, type, model and series... everybody chases big numbers... and the funny thing is that most people can't even give you 5 reasons why they need some sort of gain way over stock.

This is not aimed at anyone who has come up in the game and can speak from experience and knows their reasons (race-oriented). It's just that 80% of the consumer market for aftermarket power-adders do it for some other reason than racing, but they will throw in "racing" within their reasons (even if they have no experience at the track or no inclination to go learn) (hey we all have egos or want to be accepted; human psycho crap).

As for me, I've been more in imports where FI is more of a way of life, and my 2SS being my first foray into the world of V8 power, I want to learn this engine and car, so for me, it's all over-built suspension (HP means nothing without being able to hook) and chassis tuning, followed by intake and exhaust, then a cam and all of course with tuning. I don't want to go FI off the bat because I'll never know what it is like from stage 1 and up.

Personally, I like the sound of a lopey cam, and I have always envied that sound. Just like Harleys have their own unique sound, so does a V8 muscle car with a cammed engine. Anyway, my two fils (we don't have cents here).

[Rhino79]

I'll put my 503 rwhp cammed auto setup against any 500 rwhp fi setup at the track or on the street. My car drives like a dream, hell I'm on my way to baton rouge as we speak to race tonight. Fi is vulnerable to heat soak, power just won't be as consistent especially on a roots blower. Oh well I guess I wasted money on my setup, should have gone fi for 3 times the money only to run slower.

[429]

Originally Posted by jasonpope2003

These cars roll onto the strip on the same tires they wear on the street and run 10s all day long and still have enough street manners to be driven all over Texas on club cruises even on 200+ mile trips.

Are you saying this isn't doable n/a? Pretty sure I have the nastiest n/a motor in a 5th gen on this entire site, and my car is driven to and from the track 150+ miles in both directions in south Georgia with no issues. Air down the tires, let her eat, run 10s all day long, air up, drive home. The 'poor drivability' crap is imaginary. You physically cannot overcam these cars to the point where they suck to drive, because of the big valve clearance limitations. A good tune and they're good to go

[Kelly@PCMofNC]

Originally Posted by 429

Are you saying this isn't doable n/a? Pretty sure I have the nastiest n/a motor in a 5th gen on this entire site, and my car is driven to and from the track 150+ miles in both directions in south Georgia with no issues. Air down the tires, let her eat, run 10s all day long, air up, drive home. The 'poor drivability' crap is imaginary. You physically cannot overcam these cars to the point where they suck to drive, because of the big valve clearance limitations. A good tune and they're good to go

Pics? I just saw your sig that say's it's a COPO clone. I have a bit of a fetish

[DuskSS]

Originally Posted by mikeSS

maybe you need to re-read the guy you quoted ?

He never say anything about a stock block not being about to make that power.... what i read was about drivability...

go back and read the entire thread over there I stopped quoting him in here..
I posted more of his nonsense in the Night Fury Thread.
NM we are talking about the wrong guy.

this guy said that at 500hp on a stock block the car would be a terrible at drivablity which is absolutely wrong as well.
Driven several cammed gen5s in this HP range and they drive just fine even in deadlock traffic with a stick.
unless they were looking for a Cadillac which this is not the car you are looking for in the first place.
the car is ok stock.. nothing I'd ever brag about.
the car begins to wake up with more HP and a great suspension. then we are talking about a real car.

[DuskSS]

Originally Posted by 429

Are you saying this isn't doable n/a? Pretty sure I have the nastiest n/a motor in a 5th gen on this entire site, and my car is driven to and from the track 150+ miles in both directions in south Georgia with no issues. Air down the tires, let her eat, run 10s all day long, air up, drive home. The 'poor drivability' crap is imaginary. You physically cannot overcam these cars to the point where they suck to drive, because of the big valve clearance limitations. A good tune and they're good to go

thats not what I said at all..
in fact one of the cars I'm talking about is NA and NOS.
and sits around 760hp if you count the NOS.

[Kelly@PCMofNC]

Originally Posted by jasonpope2003

Which I don't quite understand as the TVS or any blower would be suffocating through the stock heads intake and valvetrain. sure it bolts on over 100hp.. but it could be so much more if you did the supporting mods so it could breathe.

It really just boils down to the old adage, 'to each their own'. A lot of people do a blower and that's all they need to be happy...they don't need or want $6,000 of supporting mods to make it any better for them.

I admire those people who can just install a couple things and be happy

Originally Posted by Ken_

How many people here need 500+ whp on a daily basis anyway?

Well, need is very relative...to be fair you could just as easily say why do any of us need Camaros in the first place, when a Camry will also get us from A to B?

[DuskSS]

Originally Posted by Ken_

How many people here need 500+ whp on a daily basis anyway? Going even further, how many people have even had the experience of a 500+ whp car? It doesn't seem to matter which car, type, model and series... everybody chases big numbers... and the funny thing is that most people can't even give you 5 reasons why they need some sort of gain way over stock.

This is not aimed at anyone who has come up in the game and can speak from experience and knows their reasons (race-oriented). It's just that 80% of the consumer market for aftermarket power-adders do it for some other reason than racing, but they will throw in "racing" within their reasons (even if they have no experience at the track or no inclination to go learn) (hey we all have egos or want to be accepted; human psycho crap).

As for me, I've been more in imports where FI is more of a way of life, and my 2SS being my first foray into the world of V8 power, I want to learn this engine and car, so for me, it's all over-built suspension (HP means nothing without being able to hook) and chassis tuning, followed by intake and exhaust, then a cam and all of course with tuning. I don't want to go FI off the bat because I'll never know what it is like from stage 1 and up.

Personally, I like the sound of a lopey cam, and I have always envied that sound. Just like Harleys have their own unique sound, so does a V8 muscle car with a cammed engine. Anyway, my two fils (we don't have cents here).

actually Ive had 4 cars in the 500-600 hp range over the years.
they are a blast to drive and far more fun than stock.

if you were not into speed why buy a Camaro? you can drive a FRS for half the cost and enjoy the curves with no power.

to me Cars are ALL about the most power and who draws the most attention at car shows and on the track.
that is the enjoyment I get.
I was born a motor head in 71 and raised at the track with my dad and was driving fast cars and motorcycles since the day I was old enough to reach the pedels.

Going fast is in my blood and dna.. I will never out grow that.

I have raced 1000cc Superbikes, drag raced 700hp cars and roadraced anything else I could get my hands on.
life to me is about the next part in my car or bike.
and the next trip to the track or car show.

[MikeOD]

Originally Posted by axis

That's a matter of opinion and yours is skewed. I've driven big cammed cars and they drive nothing like stock. I don't care who your tuner is, getting a big enough cam to make 500+whp idle well and have good street manners is impossible. A FI car drives completely like stock until you get on it. There's no comparison for daily driving.

Then you've never driven a car tuned by someone worth their salt at all, and as a result, YOUR opinion is skewed. My stock bottom end LS3 car does 499 rwhp N/A, and I can hand my girlfriend the key and let her take it to the grocery store...she normally drives a 130 hp 4 cylinder automatic front drive car, has never had any sort of performance vehicle in her life, and thinks I'm nuts every time new parts show up...but she loves the Camaro. No bucking, no surging, no stalling, no idle hunting...coasting in gear (first gear second gear...any of the 6 you pick) at any RPM, especially anywhere between 1000 and 2000 where most poorly tuned cars have the most trouble with all that BS, and mine is smooth as glass...I drive it DAILY in any weather that New England see's between April 1st and Thanksgiving, in any possible traffic situation (like the garage under the Boston Garden after a Stanley Cup game, the stop and go crap in Boston/Worcester/Hartford...60K miles on the odometer now, 30K came with the heads/cam)...and I tune it 100% by myself...it's not worth paying the professionals to do it...unless you know one of the 3 good professional GM tuners in this country personally, and they can spend the time calibrating it correctly, or you can do it yourself (sometimes with a quick e-mail, text message, or phonecall to one of those guys) then yeah, I can see why your opinion would be skewed...but don't you dare tell me my car sucks to drive. Other than the sound at idle, you cannot tell the difference until your put your right foot down.

That said...I haven't felt the new twin disc clutch yet...it might make it a bit tougher to handle from a stop, but that'd be the same with any engine in front of it, the clutch was dictated by the power and RPM capability of the engine, now how the power is generated.

[MikeOD]

Originally Posted by jasonpope2003

nothing draws attention even away from ZL1s than a cammed nasty SS rolling in. so a +1 just for the sound LOL.

Exactly...I can pull up WITH my buddy in his 1LE...guess who gets more looks?

Originally Posted by Kelly@PCMofNC

Disagree. If you're close to NC I will be glad to take you for a ride in my 500rwhp (ok, 496 but don't call me out) car that drives like stock.

Now, if you over cam it, or your tuner isn't so hot, hell yes a cammed car is a huge pain in the ass. But these days with the LSx's being so mod-friendly, making a 500rwhp daily driver that doesn't buck you off is no big thing at all.

OK maybe I should have said 4 tuners instead of 3...or "a handful" lol. Don't call me out either...mine only did 499 lol.

[MikeOD]

...now all that said, I do not have an issue with forced induction...I love it, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with an NA setup.

I have a hard time believe the sponsors dyno threads...everyone seems to be able to stuff a cam in, throw some headers on and make 500 rwhp...I would LOVE to see any of those cars EITHER at the track with me on the same day, or on the dyno with me on the same day...but whoever said they have yet to see an NA car actually do over 500 rwhp...open your eyes...they're out there...my cam is MILD and it's right at the cusp of being a 500 rwhp car...with more cam I'm positive I could push my car to the 515-520 rwhp range, maybe higher if I go more ridiculous but I didn't want to sacrifice the low end balls...and when laying my new dyno sheets on top of my stock and stock with bolt ons sheets...I lost nothing anywhere from idle to redline (including moving my rev limiter up over 7000)...I'm pretty sure any more cam will start to make the lower RPM balls fall off a bit. I did a few other things this winter anyways (I have a LOT of tricks up my sleeve...) and I think I'll be over 500 this year anyways.

[DuskSS]

Thanks Mike both good posts

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2

[Doubleblank]

Originally Posted by 429

Are you saying this isn't doable n/a? Pretty sure I have the nastiest n/a motor in a 5th gen on this entire site, and my car is driven to and from the track 150+ miles in both directions in south Georgia with no issues.

I'll try to give you some competition for the "nastiest" NA motor in a 5th gen. Motor currently in car but pushrods seem a little loose. Remeasuring/re-ordering and should refire next week.

Only running 11.5 to 1 initially with a fairly mild cam. Looking for a monster torque curve as I'm a road track guy and not a drag racer.

Back on topic, my old LS3 made north of 500 and was very driveable running a G5X3 cam, Mast heads, 11.5 compr.