[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by 50MileSmile

That would be a C8 with the Z51 package. Speculation is $65K or so, but we won't know officially until Sept. 15. Production doesn't even start until December...

Damn.

I guess there's no point in getting a ZL1 with this said. This is probably going to be my next car.... now the question is do I keep my SS or trade it.

[Road_Warrior85]

Originally Posted by Baldilocks01SS

Exactly, the Z06 and ZR1 ran great numbers around the track, but most drivers were white knuckled, sweaty and out of breath by the end of the drive. The Stingray Z51 and especially the Grand Sport were the sweet spots for the C7 architecture.

seems like that would coincide with the offical GM answer that the front engine layout had reached its threshold and Corvette needed to move to add any more power

[50MileSmile]

Originally Posted by Baldilocks01SS

but most drivers were white knuckled, sweaty and out of breath by the end of the drive.

You make it sound like that’s a bad thing. I always found that the more involved I got, the more relaxed I became! Sweat is a measure of pure joy...

[redcoats1976]

not looking for a new SS but if i were the C8 would have my full attention.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by 50MileSmile

You make it sound like that’s a bad thing. I always found that the more involved I got, the more relaxed I became! Sweat is a measure of pure joy...

Driving a c7z at 10/10ths isnt enjoyable. It's not involvement its constantly having to adjust for the car having less than desirable chassis control at the limit.The 6th gen Camaro by comparison is a dream to drive at 10/10ths.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by JCunningham

5000 mile break in? Dont see why C7 is 500 miles.

I'm not referring to some OEM breaking period. I'm say cars are faster at 5000 miles than at zero....

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by oldman

I'm not referring to some OEM breaking period. I'm say cars are faster at 5000 miles than at zero....

Technically you said 5 million miles...

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Technically you said 5 million miles...

I'm sure it will be very loose by then

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by oldman

I'm sure it will be very loose by then

[Doc]

Well having spent some time on the configurator, and reading various comments here and elsewhere, it looks like GM has a smash hit with the new C8. It may in fact be the reason why further Camaro development was "shelved". They knew this car was coming out, and whatever they had in the design studio for a Gen7 Camaro prototype just wasn't going to be competitive in looks or price. From what I've been reading, I believe they've already sold out the first production run of the C8 just with pre-orders. Those are not all 'track' people. I'm not crazy about the interior, and I hate the steering wheel, but I have to admit there's something about this new C8 that grabs you when you start looking at it. The hard-core traditionalist Corvette people may not like it, but obviously a lot of people do, which means it's pulling customers from other marques, most likely Audi, BMW, and Porsche, as well as others. The Corvette club is about to get much bigger.

The C8 hits the sweet spot in one very important area; looks. When it comes to first impressions, looks are everything, and the C8 has it. Second, it has a very attractive weight-to-power ratio which means great performance. Third, price! It nails it for the three big features that attract people, which is why it's already sold out for it's first production run. As a bonus, it has a surprising amount of storage space. Who knew?

What this shows me is that there are some people (groups) inside GM that "get it"; and the results speak for themselves. I just wish the Camaro group had the same understanding and vision for the Camaro, that the Corvette team has for the Corvette.

I've been saying it for years, that the Camaro team needs to go back to their roots and reinvent the pony car. A base model Camaro with a hot 6, good performance, and GREAT LOOKS that starts in the low $20k range would also sell out it's first year production run with pre-orders. It doesn't have to be a track car. In fact, for the bulk of the demographic that would want it, going to the track is a non-issue. The Camaro team would need to have a vision for what that car would be and how it would look, paying attention to the importance of looks, power and price for the bulk of the market that would buy it, just like the original pony cars. Those three things pull in people more than track times or Nurburgring numbers. They can keep the high performance models but if they want a smash hit seller Camaro, they need to nail it with the above specs the way the C8 team did. Great looks, performance and price. While car enthusiasts know about the C8, there are a lot of people out there who don't yet. Once these things start showing up on the street, they won't be able to make enough of them.

The Corvette team has shown that GM CAN DO IT if they choose to. This shows that the market WILL BUY if you show them something they want. The passenger car market is far from dead; GM just needs to make something they want to buy; something that hits those three critical points. Stop designing for boring "real people"; design something that's exciting at a price people can afford.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by Doc

Well having spent some time on the configurator, and reading various comments here and elsewhere, it looks like GM has a smash hit with the new C8. It may in fact be the reason why further Camaro development was "shelved". They knew this car was coming out, and whatever they had in the design studio for a Gen7 Camaro prototype just wasn't going to be competitive in looks or price. From what I've been reading, I believe they've already sold out the first production run of the C8 just with pre-orders. Those are not all 'track' people. I'm not crazy about the interior, and I hate the steering wheel, but I have to admit there's something about this new C8 that grabs you when you start looking at it. The hard-core traditionalist Corvette people may not like it, but obviously a lot of people do, which means it's pulling customers from other marques, most likely Audi, BMW, and Porsche, as well as others. The Corvette club is about to get much bigger.

The C8 hits the sweet spot in one very important area; looks. When it comes to first impressions, looks are everything, and the C8 has it. Second, it has a very attractive weight-to-power ratio which means great performance. Third, price! It nails it for the three big features that attract people, which is why it's already sold out for it's first production run. As a bonus, it has a surprising amount of storage space. Who knew?

What this shows me is that there are some people (groups) inside GM that "get it"; and the results speak for themselves. I just wish the Camaro group had the same understanding and vision for the Camaro, that the Corvette team has for the Corvette.

I've been saying it for years, that the Camaro team needs to go back to their roots and reinvent the pony car. A base model Camaro with a hot 6, good performance, and GREAT LOOKS that starts in the low $20k range would also sell out it's first year production run with pre-orders. It doesn't have to be a track car. In fact, for the bulk of the demographic that would want it, going to the track is a non-issue. The Camaro team would need to have a vision for what that car would be and how it would look, paying attention to the importance of looks, power and price for the bulk of the market that would buy it, just like the original pony cars. Those three things pull in people more than track times or Nurburgring numbers. They can keep the high performance models but if they want a smash hit seller Camaro, they need to nail it with the above specs the way the C8 team did. Great looks, performance and price. While car enthusiasts know about the C8, there are a lot of people out there who don't yet. Once these things start showing up on the street, they won't be able to make enough of them.

The Corvette team has shown that GM CAN DO IT if they choose to. This shows that the market WILL BUY if you show them something they want. The passenger car market is far from dead; GM just needs to make something they want to buy; something that hits those three critical points. Stop designing for boring "real people"; design something that's exciting at a price people can afford.

Best of all the C8 didn't need a retro look to sell out , ask newer Camaro owners and they want a 2nd or god forbid a 3rd gen retro look. GM had their chance with the 6th gen to match the best performance with a new looking Camaro and chose to play it safe by designing something that played off the looks of the 5th gen and it failed . The Camaro has needed an all new look for a long time ,as much as i don't like 3rd gens at least that was a change from second gen design. That's the level of design change the 6th gen needed and no doubt it cost in sales . When people see what they like, they will pay . Building a bigger , cheaper Camaro is not the answer ,Camaros are just not for everyone .

[redcoats1976]

i think Doc makes a good point.i bought my 2015 RS as a year old CPO car,very few miles on it,as new for low 20s.passed on the 2016 T4 cars since the comparably priced ones were stripper cars and i wanted leather interior,HUD,and the 6 cylinder.really see nothing "wrong" with the 6th gen styling,but by the time you get into a fully optioned SS you might as well buy the C8 vette for 10 grand more.

[50MileSmile]

Originally Posted by Doc

I've been saying it for years, that the Camaro team needs to go back to their roots and reinvent the pony car. A base model Camaro with a hot 6, good performance, and GREAT LOOKS that starts in the low $20k range would also sell out it's first year production run with pre-orders. It doesn't have to be a track car. In fact, for the bulk of the demographic that would want it, going to the track is a non-issue. The Camaro team would need to have a vision for what that car would be and how it would look, paying attention to the importance of looks, power and price for the bulk of the market that would buy it, just like the original pony cars. Those three things pull in people more than track times or Nurburgring numbers. They can keep the high performance models but if they want a smash hit seller Camaro, they need to nail it with the above specs the way the C8 team did. Great looks, performance and price. While car enthusiasts know about the C8, there are a lot of people out there who don't yet. Once these things start showing up on the street, they won't be able to make enough of them.

The Corvette team has shown that GM CAN DO IT if they choose to. This shows that the market WILL BUY if you show them something they want. The passenger car market is far from dead; GM just needs to make something they want to buy; something that hits those three critical points. Stop designing for boring "real people"; design something that's exciting at a price people can afford.

I wholeheartedly agree with your desire for a whole new Camaro that meets your design parameters. There’s only one area where you’re coming up short IMHO, and that’s on price. GM would never be able to do that car, with all the features that appeal to buyers in all age groups for the low $20s - but low $30s, absolutely. I think there’s a spot in the Chevy lineup for a fun, stylish car that meets the needs of people whose souls have been awakened by the hype surrounding the C8, as well as people who can’t afford a C8 but want or need a family performance car priced lower than the C8.

If you look at the marketplace now, there are only a few cars you can buy under $25K that offer fun, performance, attitude and more than two seats: Honda Civic Si, Hyundai Veloster Turbo (not N) and Ford Fiesta ST. None of those are anything like what you’re talking about for “Doc’s Camaro,” even though they offer a great driving experience; in fact, I own one of them as a daily driver now so my 1SS 1LE doesn’t get destroyed in the real world.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Doc

Well having spent some time on the configurator, and reading various comments here and elsewhere, it looks like GM has a smash hit with the new C8. It may in fact be the reason why further Camaro development was "shelved". They knew this car was coming out, and whatever they had in the design studio for a Gen7 Camaro prototype just wasn't going to be competitive in looks or price. From what I've been reading, I believe they've already sold out the first production run of the C8 just with pre-orders. Those are not all 'track' people. I'm not crazy about the interior, and I hate the steering wheel, but I have to admit there's something about this new C8 that grabs you when you start looking at it. The hard-core traditionalist Corvette people may not like it, but obviously a lot of people do, which means it's pulling customers from other marques, most likely Audi, BMW, and Porsche, as well as others. The Corvette club is about to get much bigger.

The C8 hits the sweet spot in one very important area; looks. When it comes to first impressions, looks are everything, and the C8 has it. Second, it has a very attractive weight-to-power ratio which means great performance. Third, price! It nails it for the three big features that attract people, which is why it's already sold out for it's first production run. As a bonus, it has a surprising amount of storage space. Who knew?

What this shows me is that there are some people (groups) inside GM that "get it"; and the results speak for themselves. I just wish the Camaro group had the same understanding and vision for the Camaro, that the Corvette team has for the Corvette.

I've been saying it for years, that the Camaro team needs to go back to their roots and reinvent the pony car. A base model Camaro with a hot 6, good performance, and GREAT LOOKS that starts in the low $20k range would also sell out it's first year production run with pre-orders. It doesn't have to be a track car. In fact, for the bulk of the demographic that would want it, going to the track is a non-issue. The Camaro team would need to have a vision for what that car would be and how it would look, paying attention to the importance of looks, power and price for the bulk of the market that would buy it, just like the original pony cars. Those three things pull in people more than track times or Nurburgring numbers. They can keep the high performance models but if they want a smash hit seller Camaro, they need to nail it with the above specs the way the C8 team did. Great looks, performance and price. While car enthusiasts know about the C8, there are a lot of people out there who don't yet. Once these things start showing up on the street, they won't be able to make enough of them.

The Corvette team has shown that GM CAN DO IT if they choose to. This shows that the market WILL BUY if you show them something they want. The passenger car market is far from dead; GM just needs to make something they want to buy; something that hits those three critical points. Stop designing for boring "real people"; design something that's exciting at a price people can afford.

Sell out at what volume? And what do you mean by a “hot 6”?

Right now you can get a great looking Camaro with a “hot 4” for mid 20s. What you are asking is for GM to give you more car for thousands less. Not going to happen. Arguably the current V6 is also “hot” and it’s pretty much $30k.

So it’s way too easy to say if GM would cut the price $10k they would “sell out”.

You’ve made a ton of good points over the years but to say if GM would just give us a great looking high Performance coupe for less than the price of a base Malibu isn’t feasible. A great idea, but GM isn’t about losing $