[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Mountain

Just a quick note on GT500's and the S197...

1. The GT500 name returned in 2007 (last produced in 1970) and stayed in the Gen 1 S197 until 2009 (2005-2009), when the Gen 1 style ended.
2. GT500 continued with the Gen 2 S197 style for 2010-2012.
3. GT500 continued with the Gen 3 S197 style for 2013-2014.
4. There was never a 2015 GT500. The GT500 ended with the end of the S197 in 2014.


As for the GT500 and in response to the ZL1, I'm quite sure Ford planned to do a GT500 before the 2017 ZL1 came out.

That one is on me. I went to a local dealer to look at 2015 Mustangs when they first arrived and they had a GT500 on the showroom floor. Salesperson was quick to mention to me that Ford was building out the last ones even with the S550 in commerce.

[72MachOne99GT]

You’ve posted enough intelligent stuff to cover that one.

But no more!

The addition of hood pins on the new Shelby is pretty cool.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Mountain

Just a quick note on GT500's and the S197...

1. The GT500 name returned in 2007 (last produced in 1970) and stayed in the Gen 1 S197 until 2009 (2005-2009), when the Gen 1 style ended.
2. GT500 continued with the Gen 2 S197 style for 2010-2012.
3. GT500 continued with the Gen 3 S197 style for 2013-2014.
4. There was never a 2015 GT500. The GT500 ended with the end of the S197 in 2014.


As for the GT500 and in response to the ZL1, I'm quite sure Ford planned to do a GT500 before the 2017 ZL1 came out.

Good info here as I was into Challengers. I liked the live axles so I guess 2014 would be the last time to get one... hmmmmm.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

You’ve posted enough intelligent stuff to cover that one.

But no more!

The addition of hood pins on the new Shelby is pretty cool.

I liked the Shelby twist locks with springs. Always thought it was a more elegant solution vs pins.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

That is not indicative of a bog issue at all. It could be that the stock tires are that good that they are as close to DRs as it gets. If you've driven one then you could tell that these tires that come on the ZL1 are phenomenal. They're soo good that lots of people have bought a second set as opposed to upgrading to Michelins or other tires. There has not been any reports that I have seen of any bogging issue with the A10 ZL1. It sounds to me like one person here mentioned it as a possibility and you're running with it like it's a dead set fact. But don't take my word. I'm sure you won't anyway. Go and ask others if they've noticed any bogging in the A10 at all whether under hard launches, with DRs, DDing, light throttle, anything. I've done a lot of racing on closed race courses and there is no bog in mine at least.

Why can't the car 60' any better than 1:70s even with DRs, is it TM holding the car back. With 650 lbs of torque and DRs this should be in the low 1:60 - mid 1:50s range. Maybe there is another explanation? Its really too bad as this is what is holding the ZL1s back, it has the mph to run the number, with better 60' times the car would likely be running 10:70-80s stock with DRs consistently similar to the HC.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

That is not indicative of a bog issue at all. It could be that the stock tires are that good that they are as close to DRs as it gets. If you've driven one then you could tell that these tires that come on the ZL1 are phenomenal. They're soo good that lots of people have bought a second set as opposed to upgrading to Michelins or other tires. There has not been any reports that I have seen of any bogging issue with the A10 ZL1. It sounds to me like one person here mentioned it as a possibility and you're running with it like it's a dead set fact. But don't take my word. I'm sure you won't anyway. Go and ask others if they've noticed any bogging in the A10 at all whether under hard launches, with DRs, DDing, light throttle, anything. I've done a lot of racing on closed race courses and there is no bog in mine at least.

Correct on the tires but the A10 bogs like crazy. I owned the 2nd A10 off the line and could not put down a consistent 60' or 0-60 time due to bog. I knew within the 1st second if I was going to have a good run or not. Best 0-60' was 3.6 but had many 4.X due to bog. It's not just a manual thing and one of the reasons I said screw it and went with the road track king.

I was sitting in a golf cart with the GM guys at CFest VII explaining this issue... jumped out and made a couple of passed on the strip, one was a 1.7X 60' and the next 2.0 with the same settings. Never did figure out how to get around it or be consistent. But now the 2019 seems to be much better and it's a manual.

[BlaqWhole]

It just seems to me like some of these criticisms are a bit ridiculous. I mean, what more do you want out of the car? It tested at 11.4. It destroys everything on the track. It is fully optioned. It does extremely well as a DD. It comes in cheaper than the HC and GT350R and of the three, was the only one that did not have stupid markups. It has nowhere near the issues that the GT350s suffered from. The supercharger bearings did not go bust like the 15-16 Hellcat blowers did. Throw DRs on it and the stock driveshaft will not snap like the Hellcat's driveshafts have been known to do. And if there is a bog in the A10, then it is soo insignificant that I and many others have not even noticed it. GM built the perfect car and the complaint is that it can't do a 1.7 60 ft with DRs even tho people have hit high 10s and low 11s?? I'm not criticizing anyone for whatever they might have against the ZL1. But the car was not built solely for straight line runs. Yet here it is doing high 10s and low 11s. Cut the car some slack.

[BlaqWhole]

Regardless of 60ft, take an A10 ZL1 and then an A8 Hellcat...both cars bone stock, stock tires, stock tire pressure, off the showroom floor...put them both on the drag strip with a good driver who is not super familiar with both cars...put up $10,000 on whichever car you think will do better in ET when averaging 3 runs...which car would you pick? Just curious.

And for the record, what is the 60 ft of the more expensive GT350R? What does it do in the quarter mile? If we're gonna throw out the fact that the ZL1 is not quarter mile built, then what would be the Shelby's excuse? And how does the Hellcat compare to the ZL1 on a track? Can it match or even stay close to the ZL1 like the ZL1 can stay close to the Hellcat in a straight line? Cna even the GT350R beat the ZL1 around a track? When you put it all together, I don't think anyone should even be mentioning 1.7 60 ft.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Regardless of 60ft, take an A10 ZL1 and then an A8 Hellcat...both cars bone stock, stock tires, stock tire pressure, off the showroom floor...put them both on the drag strip with a good driver who is not super familiar with both cars...put up $10,000 on whichever car you think will do better in ET when averaging 3 runs...which car would you pick? Just curious.

And for the record, what is the 60 ft of the more expensive GT350R? What does it do in the quarter mile? If we're gonna throw out the fact that the ZL1 is not quarter mile built, then what would be the Shelby's excuse? And how does the Hellcat compare to the ZL1 on a track? Can it match or even stay close to the ZL1 like the ZL1 can stay close to the Hellcat in a straight line? Cna even the GT350R beat the ZL1 around a track? When you put it all together, I don't think anyone should even be mentioning 1.7 60 ft.

Excellent points.

I will add the widebody did surprisingly well on the lightning lap..

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Regardless of 60ft, take an A10 ZL1 and then an A8 Hellcat...both cars bone stock, stock tires, stock tire pressure, off the showroom floor...put them both on the drag strip with a good driver who is not super familiar with both cars...put up $10,000 on whichever car you think will do better in ET when averaging 3 runs...which car would you pick? Just curious.

And for the record, what is the 60 ft of the more expensive GT350R? What does it do in the quarter mile? If we're gonna throw out the fact that the ZL1 is not quarter mile built, then what would be the Shelby's excuse? And how does the Hellcat compare to the ZL1 on a track? Can it match or even stay close to the ZL1 like the ZL1 can stay close to the Hellcat in a straight line? Cna even the GT350R beat the ZL1 around a track? When you put it all together, I don't think anyone should even be mentioning 1.7 60 ft.

Originally Posted by oldman

Excellent points.

I will add the widebody did surprisingly well on the lightning lap..

Excellent points? really?

The regular ZL1 is no less built for the quarter mile then any car ever produced save the Demon. The Hellcat has nothing the ZL1 lacks that benefits its quarter mile capability from the factory.

Was the GT350R built for the 1/4? I guess if you're trying to build the worst possible 1/4 mile car it could be. No Auto option, an n/a FPC engine and a manual trans with exceptionally long gear ratios.

and If a regular SS with 200 less hp/torque can pull 1.7's then something is holding back the ZL1 and it ain't tires.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Excellent points? really?

The regular ZL1 is no less built for the quarter mile then any car ever produced save the Demon. The Hellcat has nothing the ZL1 lacks that benefits its quarter mile capability from the factory.

Was the GT350R built for the 1/4? I guess if you're trying to build the worst possible 1/4 mile car it could be. No Auto option, an n/a FPC engine and a manual trans with exceptionally long gear ratios.

and If a regular SS with 200 less hp/torque can pull 1.7's then something is holding back the ZL1 and it ain't tires.

So now a regular SS is faster than a ZL1...

It sounds to me like you've got some sort of envy or jealously of the ZL1 or those of us who own one which makes it so that all you can do is try to criticize it in any way you can. It does exactly what the Hellcat is supposedly doing in the quarter mile, high 10s to low 11s. It beats the GT350R around a track. Yet you're harping on "1.7" all of a sudden?? Lol! Snd now you're implying that the SS is faster?? You know better than that and so does the rest of us. You just can't admit it or don't want to admit it. There is absolutely nothing that a HC or GT350R can do that a ZL1 can't do better.

So I'll ask you what I asked in my last post...take an A10 ZL1 and then an A8 Hellcat...both cars bone stock, stock tires, stock tire pressure, off the showroom floor...put them both on the drag strip with a good driver who is not super familiar with both cars...put up $10,000 on whichever car you think will do better in ET when averaging 3 runs...which car would you pick?

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

So now a regular SS is faster than a ZL1...

It sounds to me like you've got some sort of envy or jealously of the ZL1 or those of us who own one which makes it so that all you can do is try to criticize it in any way you can. It does exactly what the Hellcat is supposedly doing in the quarter mile, high 10s to low 11s. It beats the GT350R around a track. Yet you're harping on "10.7" all of a sudden?? Lol! Snd now you're implying that the SS is faster?? You know better than that and so does the rest of us. You just can't admit it or don't want to admit it. There is absolutely nothing that a HC or GT350R can do that a ZL1 can't do better.

Where did I claim the SS was faster than a ZL1 or mention a 10.7?. What I said was that the SS is capable of producing very similar 60' times to the ZL1 and a car with 200 less hp and tq should not be able to unless the ZL1 is traction limited which by owners testimony it is not. TM is holding the ZL1 back.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Where did I claim the SS was faster than a ZL1 or mention a 10.7?. What I said was that the SS is capable of producing very similar 60' times to the ZL1 and a car with 200 less hp and tq should not be able to unless the ZL1 is traction limited which by owners testimony it is not. TM is holding the ZL1 back.

I obviously meant "1.7".

Your implication is that the SS somehow is faster because according to you, the SS can do a 1.7 60ft and the ZL1 can't even with DRs. Did the 663 HP much lighter 13-14 GT500 do a 1.7? I'm actually asking. Anyway, the ZL1 is good for high 10s to low 11s whether or not it can do a 1.7 60ft. And we don't race 60ft anyway so it doesn't matter.

And you avoided my question. Between the ZL1 and Hellcat, under the conditions I explained, which one would you put money on?

[13vertss]

IMHO, the more hp are car has, the harder to get quick 60 times. Traction being the biggest issue with a rwd car with a front mounted engine on stock tires.