[Pupilbone]

I was under a rock for a few days, just read this. What a nightmare.

A classic example of bad stuff happening to good peeps. Sorry you’re going through it, good luck.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Zaqwert6

I can't even imaging how upset I would be in your situation. My condolences.



That said, despite what many have posted here, that can be repaired perfectly with zero impact to the performance or appearance of the car.



"CAN"...with out question. Now, I can not speak to whether or not it will at that dealership. I've had far worse damage repaired, and to more expensive cars, and I defy anyone to identify those repairs. But I have an amazing repair shop local to me that I have used exclusively for ages.



So if it was me.... I would file an insurance claim (they will settle up with the dealer later) and take it to the repair shop of my preference and get it fixed that way I want and to my 100% satisfaction. You are no way obligated to let that dealer fix the damage just because they did it. By doing so, you are forfeiting many of your rights in that situation. They will do whats best for them and you will have to fight with them over that and probably after the fact.


Have it fixed by someone that it working for YOUR needs and satisfaction.


IMO

This assumes OP's insurance company allows him to take it where ever he wants for the repair. Not sure that is always the case.

I agree with you, the repair, even if the a-pillar is damaged (I'm certain it is) can be repaired to the point of not noticing. The biggest issue will simply be paint match of the fender and door outer to the rest of the car. As for fit and finish and door operation? I don't see an issue.

In the end it's simply lost value. Does OP sell the car with full disclosure? Will it show up in Car Fax?

If you have an accident, you takes your lumps. Someone else doing something bad (this case) OP should be covered for that as well.

If not mistaken, you can even add a rider to your policy for lost value but can't be certain of that, but you can insure for just about anything.

As I said in an earlier post, a friend Tesla was rear ended. He found a decent Chicago lawyer who sued and got another $8,000 in lost value from the other guys insurance company and it didn't take much to get it. I think he paid a % of the win.

So OP the dealer will give your car back in decent shape. You you have to watch that they don't try to repair and reuse parts to save cost. I've seen that done. New GM replacement parts all around.

Then you need to decide if you want to pursue damages for lost value and how that looks.

Zaqwert6 has a fine idea IF you know of a better body shop and IF your insurance company lets you pick.

[Zaqwert6]

Worst case scenario, any other repair shop is NOT the one fixing it on their own dime.



But you do get what you pay for with insurance like anything else. If you cheap out, then you pay in the end anyway. Which is why I said what "I" would do.

Originally Posted by Number 3

This assumes OP's insurance company allows him to take it where ever he wants for the repair. Not sure that is always the case.

I agree with you, the repair, even if the a-pillar is damaged (I'm certain it is) can be repaired to the point of not noticing. The biggest issue will simply be paint match of the fender and door outer to the rest of the car. As for fit and finish and door operation? I don't see an issue.

In the end it's simply lost value. Does OP sell the car with full disclosure? Will it show up in Car Fax?

If you have an accident, you takes your lumps. Someone else doing something bad (this case) OP should be covered for that as well.

If not mistaken, you can even add a rider to your policy for lost value but can't be certain of that, but you can insure for just about anything.

As I said in an earlier post, a friend Tesla was rear ended. He found a decent Chicago lawyer who sued and got another $8,000 in lost value from the other guys insurance company and it didn't take much to get it. I think he paid a % of the win.

So OP the dealer will give your car back in decent shape. You you have to watch that they don't try to repair and reuse parts to save cost. I've seen that done. New GM replacement parts all around.

Then you need to decide if you want to pursue damages for lost value and how that looks.

Zaqwert6 has a fine idea IF you know of a better body shop and IF your insurance company lets you pick.

[GrimReaperSS]

Originally Posted by NYJets12

Name the dealership so nobody else goes there.
Sucks this had to happen, what a bunch of morons

So you blame an entire dealership on one persons mistake/accident? Not being there to see exactly what happened and why, lets just say this person had a medical emergency just as they were pulling off the rack. Does this person deserve to lose their job and everyone else in the entire dealerships pay suffers in the future because you want to get the angry mob all riled up? Even without going to that extreme, it's still an accident until you can prove that this employee did it intentionally. This MAYBE would warrant not dealing with that service department in the future, but Sales/ Parts / Detail departments had no affect on this situation. In fact, if anyone ever has an issue at a dealer (or any shop) with an advisor, technician, salesman, manager etc, you can always request that you deal with someone else. If it's a real small, hometown type, dealership (or shop) where there may be only one advisor, salesman etc, than in that case I would say to just try somewhere else.

[GrimReaperSS]

Originally Posted by mikeman

They probably use those portable lift racks to save on money. By portable, I mean how they basically bolt down into the cement floor of the shop. I guess that makes it easy for when they construct the building. In the old days, they use to have those lifts with the center tube that rose from under the ground.

A shop, especially a dealership, should have lifts (if they make such a thing) that go flush to the floor with supports that clear an opened door. That way, they wouldn't have to use long planks of wood just to get the car up on the lift. The whole setup is a mess IMO.

So I work for a dealer that the building has been up since the 60's, but was purchased within the last 5 years by another group. The original hoists were the in ground, hydraulic hoist that you speak of with the center post into the ground. The new dealer has decided that the overhead/above ground hoist are what are replacing the old hoists once they fail/require repairs (https://rotarylift.com/category/car-lifts/). #1. When the old in ground hoists fail, they need to come in an bust up the concrete around it to remove it (especially not good for shops today that have coated or tiled floors). #2. The new overhead style hoists are much cheaper to both purchase and maintain, as well as move in the future if necessary. I personally don't like them because you cannot open cars doors fully when you need to do interior work and even just getting in/out of the car can sometimes be difficult. There are also newer, dual post, in ground hoists, the arms are not recessed into the floor like you mentioned, but they are much nicer to work on (https://rotarylift.com/product/sl210/). Problem is that they're expensive to install, but not as expensive to maintain as the old in ground ones because they are built into an in ground "vault" with access panels to service the hoist. The other issue with them, if you're not careful, you can easily damage a wheel and or tire when driving onto/off of them. This is the type of hoist where I drive onto and off off with the door open so I can see where the LF wheel is in relation to the hoist so as not to damage it. I also drive on the alignment rack with the door open to center the vehicle on the hoist. I don't reverse off the alignment rack with the door open though, just not necessary.
As far as the planks go, I still have to use 2x10" boards sometimes to get cars on hoists, whether it is a service hoist or the alignment (drive on style) rack because a lot of people lower their cars. The front bumper or worse front splitter, front subframe, rocker panels (depending on the style of hoist), all get hung up on either the hoist it self or the ramps to drive up onto the hoist. So to prevent this, we have to sometimes us boards, hell, even Porsche has a set of 4 ramps as special tools that the dealership is required to purchase (they look similar to this but are made of wood: https://www.raceramps.com/garage-ser...iABEgIMufD_BwE) A lot of the Porsche GT cars are usually pretty low (even factory) and the hoist arms cannot get under the car or with the alignment rack, the front splitter hits the normal ramps.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by GrimReaperSS

So you blame an entire dealership on one persons mistake/accident? Not being there to see exactly what happened and why, lets just say this person had a medical emergency just as they were pulling off the rack. Does this person deserve to lose their job and everyone else in the entire dealerships pay suffers in the future because you want to get the angry mob all riled up? Even without going to that extreme, it's still an accident until you can prove that this employee did it intentionally. This MAYBE would warrant not dealing with that service department in the future, but Sales/ Parts / Detail departments had no affect on this situation. In fact, if anyone ever has an issue at a dealer (or any shop) with an advisor, technician, salesman, manager etc, you can always request that you deal with someone else. If it's a real small, hometown type, dealership (or shop) where there may be only one advisor, salesman etc, than in that case I would say to just try somewhere else.

There goes another excuse for lack of personal responsibility. It was an accident. “Let’s just say he found out his puppy died”.....

For that we all know it’s impossible to close the door before backing a car out

An accident is dropping a carton of eggs on the ground. Not closing the door of a customers car - ANY car - before backing it up? Complete incompetence. End of story.

The lack of laying responsibility and consequences squarely on those responsible for causing these issues is why on a much bigger scale we are in trouble as a country.

[mikeman]

Originally Posted by LT4Greg

Well mikeman, I planned to keep my 2016 for longer than I did but I decided that I would get a ZL1 because I wanted one back in 2017 when they were released for the 6gen but couldn’t afford a new one and figured I would never own one then or later. I was looking to upgrade to a SS 1LE and found the used 2017 ZL1 for a good price and moved on from the 2016 2SS and not because the SS was giving me any problems. It was my choice and have no regrets. I have an opinion just like you and everyone else here does about the situation and wish the Op well with his Camaro whatever happens.

This establishes the whole point I was trying to make. When you had the '16, you were already planning on upgrading in the near future. The '16 gets wrecked and sustains $18k worth of damage. The insurance company fixes it up and you continue looking to upgrade to another model. You get lucky and find a used ZL1, which is a huge bonus upgrade, and you live happily ever after. Of course, that is assuming that the used ZL1 you is mostly original with low miles and has no accident/damage history.

It would be a far different senario if the '16 was the car you planned on keeping after you paid if off. The emotional investment is much greater on something like that. A lot of people treat these cars as appliances and trade them in every few years for the next best thing. However, there are a few out there, like me, who plan on keeping their vehicles for a long time. I'm not saying whether this is good or bad, it's just the way it is with certain people. A vehicle that had sustained that much damage would be very hard for me to keep especially when there are so many out there that are completely original and in pristine OEM condition.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by GrimReaperSS

So you blame an entire dealership on one persons mistake/accident? Not being there to see exactly what happened and why, lets just say this person had a medical emergency just as they were pulling off the rack. Does this person deserve to lose their job and everyone else in the entire dealerships pay suffers in the future because you want to get the angry mob all riled up? Even without going to that extreme, it's still an accident until you can prove that this employee did it intentionally. This MAYBE would warrant not dealing with that service department in the future, but Sales/ Parts / Detail departments had no affect on this situation. In fact, if anyone ever has an issue at a dealer (or any shop) with an advisor, technician, salesman, manager etc, you can always request that you deal with someone else. If it's a real small, hometown type, dealership (or shop) where there may be only one advisor, salesman etc, than in that case I would say to just try somewhere else.

Who hired him? Who writes his checks? Who is responsible for his actions while on the clock?

You're damn right I would blame the dealer. Does he deserve to lose his job? Hell yes he does. If he didn't I would never go back, though realistically I doubt I would ever go back even if they gave me a new car AND fired him.

You can't fix stupid and failing to close the car door before you drive it off the rack is stupid.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by GrimReaperSS

So I work for a dealer that the building has been up since the 60's, but was purchased within the last 5 years by another group. The original hoists were the in ground, hydraulic hoist that you speak of with the center post into the ground. The new dealer has decided that the overhead/above ground hoist are what are replacing the old hoists once they fail/require repairs (https://rotarylift.com/category/car-lifts/). #1. When the old in ground hoists fail, they need to come in an bust up the concrete around it to remove it (especially not good for shops today that have coated or tiled floors). #2. The new overhead style hoists are much cheaper to both purchase and maintain, as well as move in the future if necessary. I personally don't like them because you cannot open cars doors fully when you need to do interior work and even just getting in/out of the car can sometimes be difficult. There are also newer, dual post, in ground hoists, the arms are not recessed into the floor like you mentioned, but they are much nicer to work on (https://rotarylift.com/product/sl210/). Problem is that they're expensive to install, but not as expensive to maintain as the old in ground ones because they are built into an in ground "vault" with access panels to service the hoist. The other issue with them, if you're not careful, you can easily damage a wheel and or tire when driving onto/off of them. This is the type of hoist where I drive onto and off off with the door open so I can see where the LF wheel is in relation to the hoist so as not to damage it. I also drive on the alignment rack with the door open to center the vehicle on the hoist. I don't reverse off the alignment rack with the door open though, just not necessary.
As far as the planks go, I still have to use 2x10" boards sometimes to get cars on hoists, whether it is a service hoist or the alignment (drive on style) rack because a lot of people lower their cars. The front bumper or worse front splitter, front subframe, rocker panels (depending on the style of hoist), all get hung up on either the hoist it self or the ramps to drive up onto the hoist. So to prevent this, we have to sometimes us boards, hell, even Porsche has a set of 4 ramps as special tools that the dealership is required to purchase (they look similar to this but are made of wood: https://www.raceramps.com/garage-ser...iABEgIMufD_BwE) A lot of the Porsche GT cars are usually pretty low (even factory) and the hoist arms cannot get under the car or with the alignment rack, the front splitter hits the normal ramps.

I see. I believe your bias is showing.

[caSStro18]

Wow! So many people jumping the gun here. Why don’t we all just wait for an update from the OP to see what the dealership is doing to make things right. So many making the dealership out to be an evil, crime committing business that should close up their doors forever because of one incident (that we know of). And so many are certain as to what the actual damage is based on three pictures. Really? Curious...has anyone had damage to their car identical to this? Probably not. Without all of the details, and I mean ALL of the details, it’s really difficult, if not impossible to know the actual damage. Hopefully the owner of the car gets a fair deal out of this. I’d like to believe there are good people in the world and dealerships that are actually doing what is right to make the customer happy. I’m reserving my judgment about the dealership until I have more information on which to make a rational decision on their ability to make it right. But, you are all free to prematurely pass judgment if you’d like.

[LT4Greg]

I can assure you mikeman that my ZL1 was original and didn’t have any damage because I checked before I bought the car. Anyway I done explaining about the ZL1 and the 2016 I had!��

[mikeman]

Originally Posted by LT4Greg

I can assure you mikeman that my ZL1 was original and didn’t have any damage because I checked before I bought the car. Anyway I done explaining about the ZL1 and the 2016 I had!��

I didn't want to make you mad. I'm just trying to explain why, even if something is fixed up properly, would still not be the same as if it had no damage at all especially to the tune of $18k.

Exactly! You checked to make sure the ZL1 you upgraded to was original and never wrecked. If it was, you probably wouldn't have bought it. I'm guessing you would've waited for another ZL1 to come around that was never wrecked.

There are just too many of these cars built to keep something that was severely damaged. Now, if we were talking about a '69 COPO 427 or a Plymouth Superbird, then that might be a different story.

Some people might not mind how much damage a vehicle had in the past as long as it was fixed up properly and some will mind. However, from what I see at the local used car lots with relatively new late model vehicles, there seem to be a large number of them with fixed up body and paint work sitting on the lots. I'm pretty good at spotting things like that.

This makes me wonder why people get rid of their 1-2-3 year old car after something happens to them. Is it all just a coincidence or is it something else? It can't be everyone upgrading to a better model or changing their mind and then trading them for something else. Some of it has to be related to what I'm seeing when I check them out for previous damage. I'm guessing in many cases, people just dump the vehicle after it's been damaged, particularly if there was major paint work involved.

[threetime]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

Except for the fact that pillar isn't damaged. If it were twisted, It would of pinched/cracked the windshield. There is absolutely no way you're going to move that pillar and not have glass 4-6 inches away from the hinge be unscathed.

That is absolutely incorrect information you just stated. I built trucks for 20 years and built the cabs for 4. You have to know how they are put together. That channel ties in the the firewall, deck, and A-pillar. The A-pillar being the weakest link except the firewall holds that point and reinforces it. That channel can flare out without affecting the A-pillar enough to break the glass. Now looking at the picture, the hinges do look like they bent but you wont know if A-pillar are out till door is removed and channel is checked/gauged.

[GrimReaperSS]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

Who hired him? Who writes his checks? Who is responsible for his actions while on the clock?.

Of course the dealer will take responsibility for it as it occurred at their business. What was stated was that the name of this dealer should be made known so that it can be assured that nobody uses them in the future. What I was saying is that why should all departments/employees be held accountable for one other employees actions? Sales, parts or detail should no longer have any customers/pay because someone in the service department made a mistake that affected one customer?
If you were to make a mistake at your job, then nobody should patron the place you work ever again?. Again, we can only make assumptions on what happened here. We don't know if this was the employees first day on the job, first time pulling a car off a rack or even if this was the first mistake they've made on the job in 30 years! And yes there are reasons to reverse a vehicle off the hoist with the door open (fully open to the extent of the door check, not likely, but again none of us know exactly what had occurred here).
Sure I can be biased, I have worked in the dealership world for 18 years now as a technician. I'm not saying that "stealership" mentality doesn't exist out there, but the way forums love to rally the troops around the idea that every dealer or dealership employee is out to screw them is just asinine. As the saying goes, "To err is human". Everyone is guaranteed to make mistakes. Yes, some of them really suck like this case. Unfortunately the majority here act like it was a malicious act, the offender should be "executed" on the spot and that the OP should immediately take the dealer to court.

Petrol Head:
"There goes another excuse for lack of personal responsibility. It was an accident. “Let’s just say he found out his puppy died”.....
For that we all know it’s impossible to close the door before backing a car out
An accident is dropping a carton of eggs on the ground. Not closing the door of a customers car - ANY car - before backing it up? Complete incompetence. End of story.
The lack of laying responsibility and consequences squarely on those responsible for causing these issues is why on a much bigger scale we are in trouble as a country."

Yep, let's just judge the end result only and not base it on what happened to get there. I simply provided an example where it is possible that this would've been a complete accident, not really the employees fault. It would seem that most are assuming the door was fully open and the car was reversed off the hoist without paying attention to the door being completely open. Is it not a possibility that the employee could've been holding onto the door when backing up, looking backwards out the door opening to make sure they are lining the tires up with the board(s) that is placed on the ramp, when something happened that caused them to loose grip of the door allowing it to fully open while the car was still going backwards not fully under the operators control? You don't know if this was simply negligence or if the employee suddenly had a seizure. Not closing the door when reversing on any car is not complete incompetence. I can tell you I have done this many times in my 18 year career and still do to this day. There are plenty of obstacles in the shop that can damage the wheels/tires or lower body paneling when exiting a hoist area where a coworker to spot for you is not always available. Also, way to put out some stupid anology like "maybe his puppy just died" to make it seem like I couldn't be providing actual possibilities for what occured. Let's be adults and have a realistic conversation here. Just be glad that, as far as we know, nobody was hurt in this and only the car requires repairing. It sucks OP's car is damaged, but this could've been far worse.