[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by Emoto

Why, that's like comparing Camaros to Q-Tips!

LMAO

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by aestil

The issue here is that without a doubt if the price of an item goes up, fewer of that item will sell. That is just the way of things. So with the price of the Camaro increasing from $2k to $7k per car, depending on configuration, I 100% guarantee that GM/Chevy was expecting to sell fewer units. In fact, this is self evident. They raised the price, and so there is no way a reasonable business person would expect to sell as many as was sold for a less expensive version.

Yet people in this thread keep comparing it to sales of the previous, and much less expensive generation and assuming that these sales numbers are a failure. While that may be the case, the assumption that selling as many as the less expensive Mustang or less expensive previous generation is just not reasonable.

Look for all we know the overall net on the Camaro is MORE than it used to be on the 5th gen.

It's insane that people keep predicting the end of Camaro based on these sales with almost no indication from GM that they are unsatisfied with the number of units sold.

The year over year sales figures are not very informative. What was the ASP of a Camaro last year versus this year? When you combine the fact that the whole market is down overall, with the fact that the GM entry into the segment is more expensive, then I suspect sales are in line with expectations.

Of course this is as much conjecture as anyone else best guess.

The one thing you should consider is the roughly 120+ day supply of 2016 Camaros sitting on dealer lots. GM wouldn't have over built the 2016s if they were expecting lower sales. We are now in the second month of 2016 and 2017 Camaros on dealer lots next to each other with a significant amount of 2016s.

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by Emoto

Why, that's like comparing Camaros to Q-Tips!

I think you're missing my point. My point is GM, being part of an industry with low margins, cannot simply flip a switch to increase their margin dramatically to make up for a huge loss in revenue. If it were that easy, margins wouldn't be so low to begin with. Especially when we're talking about a new design year when they're coming off such a high capital expenditure year for this new platform. This isn't good for GM from a business perspective no matter how you spin it.

[Emoto]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

I think you're missing my point. My point is GM, being part of an industry with low margins, cannot simply flip a switch to increase their margin dramatically to make up for a huge loss in revenue. If it were that easy, margins wouldn't be so low to begin with. Especially when we're talking about a new design year when they're coming off such a high capital expenditure year for this new platform. This isn't good for GM from a business perspective no matter how you spin it.

I was trying to inject some humor.

My point was that those 2 companies were wildly different, not even in the same industry, so not really an illustrative comparison. Truth be told, nobody in any company in any industry can simply increase their margins easily, or they all would. OTOH, it is true that some products can support larger margins than others. For example SUVs and pickup trucks are (relatively speaking) high margin. Whether Chevy was going for something like that with the Gen 6 or not, we may never know.

[Bassment]

Originally Posted by Emoto

I was trying to inject some humor.

My point was that those 2 companies were wildly different, not even in the same industry, so not really an illustrative comparison. Truth be told, nobody in any company in any industry can simply increase their margins easily, or they all would. OTOH, it is true that some products can support larger margins than others. For example SUVs and pickup trucks are (relatively speaking) high margin. Whether Chevy was going for something like that with the Gen 6 or not, we may never know.

GM has recently repeatedly stated they are going for margin. They decreased fleet sales. They are also going for higher resale value, and targeting a more upscale market. They are a publicly traded company, all their financials are readily available to look at.

[Emoto]

Originally Posted by Bassment

GM has recently repeatedly stated they are going for margin. They decreased fleet sales. They are also going for higher resale value, and targeting a more upscale market. They are a publicly traded company, all their financials are readily available to look at.

Ah. Good to know. Maybe they are thinking longterm, but they can't be happy about all the inventory sitting.

I think it a bit of a difficult task to move the Camaro upscale. Maybe they should re-style the Gen 6 and release it as the Panther with a focus on upscale appointments and technology.

[Kobra_Klutch]

I'm betting GM thought that it's loyal Camaro followers would gladly come out of their pockets with this new car. They planted their guys here on these forums, car meets, and shows to try and bring that personal touch to the masses. They got the pulse of what people wanted but they didn't assume correctly that their loyalists would not eagerly trade up for the new model because they knew what the past customers said they wished their current cars were/had etc.. They were wrong in assuming there would be a mass defection.

I've noticed how many of the big wigs that use to frequent this site and post frequently no longer do that, perhaps because they don't want to take the heat from this forum. We barely hear from them now...and when they do speak publicly they make a statement and then disappear.

Ironic and telling...
I'm sure they're waiting on the new models to come out and show the world how much they've improved on performance but are people willing to pay for the asking prices/profit margins for them is the real question.

What is also telling is how they're basically telling customers they want to make more profit per car which means whoever purchases one is going to pay big time. There are a few people who are going to pay for it but the majority of us will not.

I can't wait for them to get back on the forums to read their posts concerning the current state of affairs...because it's alarmingly bad.

[merlin803]

It's kind of ironic, I went into the same dealership that I got my 16 2SS at about 6 months ago and they had exactly one 16 on display out in front of the dealership.

I asked the sales guy if they had any more and he said they had 2 more in the "back".

I asked how they were selling and he said "they are selling really well but they don't keep a lot in stock as they have limited production thus far".

When it came time to sign the paperwork for my daughter's Cruze, I asked the finance guy how the 16's were selling and he said "really well" and went on to tell me that one of the engineers is his neighbor and has taken him to the GM Proving Ground in Milford a couple of times.

I said it before, I don't know how disappointed GM is but they sure don't seem to be too worried by their decision to do very little advertisement and give few incentives/rebates.

In short, I wouldn't hold my breath for "them to get back on the forums" to read about their "alarmingly bad" state of affairs.

As if they need us, on forums, to tell them if they are doing well or not, lol.

P.S. I told the finance guy to let his neighbor, the engineer, know that they hit it out of the ballpark as far as I am concerned.

[suzook]

The only people worried about sales, are the haters here on this thread. Who gives a f? The last 6mos with my gen6 have been awesome. Still getting complements weekly. More than I ever got owning my 13 for 3 yrs. Its NOT the looks, its the price. People are cheap. They want better....which the gen6 is in every way over the gen5, but now no one wants to pay up. When I heard what the gen6 was gonna be, I told everyone it was gonna be close to $50k for a 2ss....everyone laughed....well....its damn close. The sales numbers are because of the price....nothing else.

[Kobra_Klutch]

I hear ya...but if the car was a hit they'd be on here reminding us how they've delivered. The SS is a bad-ass and I really like it's performance prowess.

BTW, I'm sure that dealership was about to sing you a song while you were cutting them a check; roger that one. I'm sure they smiled big time when you walked in though; enjoy your purchases.

Customers like you are definitely good for business. In sales you have to put a positive spin on things to do otherwise is detrimental to future sales.

And I'm sure they will come on here eventually...they'll have to..many of them love to type to us..mostly when things are going well or when they're building up the suspense; we're free marketing.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by Kobra_Klutch

I hear ya...but if the car was a hit they'd be on here reminding us how they've delivered. The SS is a bad-ass and I really like it's performance prowess.

BTW, I'm sure that dealership was about to sing you a song while you were cutting them a check; roger that one. I'm sure they smiled big time when you walked in though; enjoy your purchases.

Customers like you are definitely good for business. In sales you have to put a positive spin on things to do otherwise is detrimental to future sales.

And I'm sure they will come on here eventually...they'll have to..many of them love to type to us..mostly when things are going well or when they're building up the suspense; we're free marketing.

Is that what they did on the 5th Gen forums, come on to post to everyone about what a great job they did?

Maybe they did and I missed it?

Kind of ironic, they pretty much did what most on the 5th Gen site asked for, a lighter, better handling, better performance car with an upgraded interior.

It is like some people think those things could be added for free...

Haters are gonna hate I guess.

[KyleL]

In my experience, ford wasn't willing to really budge on their gt's and I got my SS for about 3k off msrp.

So the way I figured is for about 2k more I get a faster, better handling car with nav (due to Apple CarPlay), sunroof, 8-speed auto, an 8" touchscreen, brembos on all 4 corners, and nicer standard features (such as the configurable gauge cluster)???? Kinda sounds like a no brainier to me.

I like both cars, but to me the Camaro was a better value for the money

[Speedy1975]

Could it be that there aren't a lot of cars on the lots to purchase? I had to custom order mine and wait 3 months for it. I'm an enthusiast and that comes with the territory, but I doubt your average consumer would wait and instead go buy one off the lot.

A quick local search shows tons of Mustangs on the lot and few Camaros, at least in my area.

I do agree this 6th gen is a HUGE upgrade over the 5th gen. I almost bought a 5th gen but it felt kinda cheap to me on the interior materials and layout (no offense to 5th gen owners), so I passed and bought a 370Z instead. When the 6th gen came out, I was blown away by not only the looks of the car, but the quality of materials. The solid "clunk" the trunk and hood make when they close are obvious indicators as well.

My .02 cents.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by aestil

The issue here is that without a doubt if the price of an item goes up, fewer of that item will sell. That is just the way of things. So with the price of the Camaro increasing from $2k to $7k per car, depending on configuration, I 100% guarantee that GM/Chevy was expecting to sell fewer units. In fact, this is self evident. They raised the price, and so there is no way a reasonable business person would expect to sell as many as was sold for a less expensive version.

Yet people in this thread keep comparing it to sales of the previous, and much less expensive generation and assuming that these sales numbers are a failure. While that may be the case, the assumption that selling as many as the less expensive Mustang or less expensive previous generation is just not reasonable.

Look for all we know the overall net on the Camaro is MORE than it used to be on the 5th gen.

It's insane that people keep predicting the end of Camaro based on these sales with almost no indication from GM that they are unsatisfied with the number of units sold.

The year over year sales figures are not very informative. What was the ASP of a Camaro last year versus this year? When you combine the fact that the whole market is down overall, with the fact that the GM entry into the segment is more expensive, then I suspect sales are in line with expectations.

Of course this is as much conjecture as anyone else best guess.

Chevy chose to option and content the Camaro this way. It wasn't an oversight and the expensive, hard tonneau convertible top cover is more evidence that positioning upmarket was their aim.

Originally Posted by Bassment

GM has recently repeatedly stated they are going for margin. They decreased fleet sales. They are also going for higher resale value, and targeting a more upscale market. They are a publicly traded company, all their financials are readily available to look at.

Similar to Cadillac whose sales are slumping. Aim and priced to move up market as discussed in the following article. It appears to be GM's long term strategy but only they know if they are meeting early expectations. Transforming a brand is a long term thing.

Expanding Cadillac’s reach is the task of Johan de Nysschen, the South African native who became Cadillac’s boss in 2014. The former Infiniti and Audi executive and BMW dealer persuaded GM’s brass to move Caddy’s headquarters to New York’s SoHo district last year, to “be closer to trendsetters.” He’s also a beneficiary of GM’s decision to shell out $6 billion in the next few years on 11 new or revised Cadillac models. The biggest need: crossovers. The luxury marque is adding one this year—the midsize XT5, which replaces the aged SRX. More are coming, but not until 2018.

Cadillac also has just introduced a flagship sedan, the CT6. Reflecting de Nysschen’s strategy of keeping prices high to polish the brand’s image, a well-equipped model can list for $70,000; a loaded one, $90,000. “I don’t want Cadillacs in every driveway. I’d rather have them in the right driveways," he says.

That strategy has cost Caddy some sales, but fattened the bottom line. TrueCar says the average realized price in February for a Cadillac bought via its service was $57,949 after incentives, 10.3% higher than a year earlier.That left Cadillac behind Mercedes-Benz, but ahead of BMW, Audi, and Lexus.

De Nysschen aims for Cadillac’s global sales, which rose 7.5%, to 277,868, last year, to surpass 300,000 in 2016. He asserts that 750,000 is possible by the end of 2025, as its models cover 90% of the luxury market—from crossovers to convertibles—versus 50% now.

http://www.barrons.com/articles/gene...ide-1460781730