The Official 1LE 3.91 gear swap thread - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

CamaroRBT · 12-10-2012, 12:50 PM

Ok guys this thread is for people who have done the swap and those who haven't that have questions. Since the price of these gears are so low I believe there is gonna be a large amount of us doing this. I am ordering mine tomorrow and plan on doing the swap around Christmas time.

If you have done the swap please give us all tips, tricks and tools that are necessary to complete the job. This thread is aimed to help us not spend the extra $500 to get these installed. To be able to do the swap ourselves. Pics are always welcomed and appreciated.

If you are considering the swap then this is the thread where you ask questions about cost, time etc.

Ready............. Set............. Go! ;-)

CamaroRBT · 12-10-2012, 01:07 PM

429 · 12-10-2012, 01:58 PM

Unless you have a case spreader, depth and backlash micrometer, and working knowledge of gear patterning, you have no business doing this install by yourself. Pull the pumpkin and take it to a specialty shop (differential shop, 4x4 shop, speed shop)

CamaroRBT · 12-10-2012, 02:08 PM

Dont get me wrong, if you are doing gears i would assume you would have some kind of intelligence when it comes to turning wrenches. Now this thread isnt for the 16 year old who doesnt know the difference between a ratchet and a wrench. This thread is for 16-80 year olds who are confident and skilled enough to be able to take on such a task as this. Now lets get past the "cant do it" and get to the "this is how to do it". This forum is full of intelligent individuals who are more then capable of pulling this off.

blazzin1 · 12-10-2012, 02:25 PM

I'm sorry, but I completely agree with 429 on this. Just because a couple of driveway wrench monkeys (no offense, I'm one myself) on these forums think this is a simple swap-over job, doesn't mean it's a good idea to have a bunch of untrained novice mechanics tearing into their rear ends, and then wondering why their gears only lasted 500 miles before they disintegrated!!! This job, when done PROPERLY, takes special tools, training, and experience (as 429 previously mentioned). Why would you want to gamble on the possibility of destroying your rear end? Get it done right...by a professional....or don't do it at all. Sorry, just my opinion....

EDIT: I will say that if a person is mechanically-inclined and has the appropriate tools and facilities, there should be no problem removing and/or disconnecting the exhaust, axles, driveshaft, and rear end pumpkin yourself. That will save you a ton in labor costs right there. But take the pumpkin to a shop that specializes in rear ends (no, not your local strip bar) and have them set-up the gears for you. If done properly, there's really much more to it than just swapping stuff over.

PIPE · 12-10-2012, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blazzin1

I'm sorry, but I completely agree with 429 on this. Just because a couple of driveway wrench monkeys (no offense, I'm one myself) on these forums think this is a simple swap-over job, doesn't mean it's a good idea to have a bunch of untrained novice mechanics tearing into their rear ends, and then wondering why their gears only lasted 500 miles before they disintegrated!!! This job, when done PROPERLY, takes special tools, training, and experience (as 429 previously mentioned). Why would you want to gamble on the possibility of destroying your rear end? Get it done right...by a professional....or don't do it at all. Sorry, just my opinion....

GaBoy25 · 12-10-2012, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blazzin1

I'm sorry, but I completely agree with 429 on this. Just because a couple of driveway wrench monkeys (no offense, I'm one myself) on these forums think this is a simple swap-over job, doesn't mean it's a good idea to have a bunch of untrained novice mechanics tearing into their rear ends, and then wondering why their gears only lasted 500 miles before they disintegrated!!! This job, when done PROPERLY, takes special tools, training, and experience (as 429 previously mentioned). Why would you want to gamble on the possibility of destroying your rear end? Get it done right...by a professional....or don't do it at all. Sorry, just my opinion....

They all told me that when I built my truck tranny and replaced tc ect. I did it and did it well (800hp) held for over a year now.

All of this because 1 guy took the time to post an extensive install guide down to every bolt. I would have never attempted to do so if someone hadn't been so thorough. Saved me a $1000 (could have cost me 4k if I fudged up)

Risk is inherent but satisfaction is for life.

Caswell239 · 12-10-2012, 03:01 PM

Wtf is a backlash micrometer?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapat

429 · 12-10-2012, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroRBT

Dont get me wrong, if you are doing gears i would assume you would have some kind intelligence when it comes to turning wrenches. Now this thread isnt for the 16 year old who doesnt know the difference between a ratchet and a wrench. This thread is for 16-80 year olds who are confident and skilled enough to be able to take on such a task as this. Now lets get past the "cant do it" and get to the "this is how to do it". This forum is full of intelligent individuals who are more then capable to pull this off.

It's having the proper special tools and fixtures that is the issue, more then the actual procedure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caswell239

Wtf is a backlash micrometer?

Dial indicator... aka backlash micrometer in redneck slang. We GA mechanics are sophisticated

Caswell239 · 12-10-2012, 03:14 PM

I was like uhh does he mean a dial indicator lol.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapat

stikSS · 12-10-2012, 03:48 PM

Ok.... I just posted on another 3.91 thread in this same section yesterday. I just done my swap this past weekend, and don't believe everything you read or see. While I do agree that if this is your first rodeo with gears... you may want to have a differential mechanic on retainer, but it's not near as bad as what I'm sure some of you and myself have read about doing gears.

Now I will do my best to give you as much detail as I can into my swap, and I do apologize for not having pictures, but when I'm working on my car... the camera is the farthest thing from my mind.

Tools - if you are lucky enough to have a lift.. that will make this very easy, if not, jack and stands will work just as good. You will need a 18mm socket and wrench, 10mm wrench, and a 15mm socket and wrench. Most of the bolts in the rear of the car are 18mm, but your exhaust if you remove it will be 15mm and the 10mm wrench will be used to remove the little bolt holding your brake line and the sensor that hooks into the hub, and a 32mm socket to remove the axle nut.

After removing the wheels, remove the axle nut... you may need a cheater bar to break it loose, then use the 10mm and disconnect the brake line attached to the upper control arm, and the sensor behind the rotor that hooks into the hub. Next, you will remove the bolts from the upper control arm, the upper trailing arm and the lower trailing arm, this will allow you lean the hub outward from the car so that you can remove the axles. Take a hammer and a rachet end or rod and hit the end of the axle to push it out of the hub. Once you have the axle loose from the hub, If you have someone helping, one needs to get under the car and the second person needs to work the axle out of the hub and then start the removal from the carrier. All you need to do is give a few good tugs and it will come out, but make sure you don't damage the seals pulling the axles out. That is where the 2nd person is important... make sure they support the axle as it's being taken out of the carrier from underneath the car. No axle grease will come out, or if it does it will be very little. You will do this on both sides.

Next, there are 3 bolts connecting the driveshaft. You will more than likely need to either set the parking break or make sure the car is in gear when removing the bolts. All 3 can be removed, the shaft will still be supported by the pinion. Now, you may have to drop the exhaust, that depends on what you have. I have Corsa, and I removed the back half of mine. This will give all the room you need to get the carrier out. There are 3 bolts holding the carrier, and there is a small vent tube connected to the carrier, just pull it off. Get a jack and support the carrier before you start taking bolts out, so you can start lowering it down. Once you start the lowering process, one person needs to slowly work the driveshaft out. I will basically seperate itself as you lower the carrier. That pretty much sums up the removal, and the install is the same methods as this just in reverse.

Onto the gear swap....... This is where i think it will surprise alot of people. I didn't actually do my swap, but I was taught and watched it being done by my mechanic. Pretty much, Chevrolet has the carrier machined so well that its a take out and put in method. The gears will come with new ring bolts, and crush sleeve. You will need to get the pinion out of the housing and press off the pinion bearing and removed the crush sleeve, and then same process to install the new sleeve and you should be able to reuse the same bearing as long as you don't damage it taking it off the original pinion, and install it back into the housing. Now, replace the ring gear and reattach with new bolts, use the existing bearings on both sides of the ring gear if they look good, basically you're ready to re-install that back into the housing. The fit is very tight, and what we done was stood the carrier up on the end and held everthing together and slowly worked back into place. It takes a little force to work back in, but once its in, bolt the caps back on and pretty much its done. No shims or backlash adjustment was needed. The gear was lined up perfect. We assumed that since this is OEM parts, that it was machined to fit prefect without any adjustment. My mechanic was very impressed with precision that is used since there was no need for shims or bacK lash. We used grease to double check the position and it was lined up dead perfect in the center of the ring gear. From there.... it was put the gasket on, and replace the carrier cover.... and then back in the car same way it came out.

By far.... one of the easiest mods I've ever done on my car and very worth the money. I paid 248 for the gears and my mechanic charged 150 for labor. The labor charges i've seen for these swaps is crazy... unless you're doing an aftermarket gear, then those will require shims and back lash setting.

ssmike · 12-10-2012, 03:49 PM

OK now that we have all the pre-requisite stuff discussed

I'm doing 3.91's but I'll leave the actual gear swap to a pro! I will, however, attempt to do the differential removal from the car to save money! I have done all of my own suspension mods so I know my way around the chassis and think I can do the removal OK on jackstands!

My question is this, I looked at the Pfadt instructions for doing their bushings and it says to remove pretty much everything from the wheel hub on the driver's side and pull the axle from the dif. Then remove the driveshaft and dif mounts. Do I need to repeat the same thing on the passenger side or just pull the diff off of the passenger side axle?

Also, Does the axle nut need removing from the driver side wheel hub or stay attached? It wasn't clear to me, or I missed that info. Thanks!

OP, glad you started this thread!

Edit: stikSS just answered my question. He posted just before I hit the post button!

GaBoy25 · 12-10-2012, 04:12 PM

Thank you so much stikss

Awesome!

CamaroRBT · 12-10-2012, 04:19 PM

Now thats what im talking about stikss!!!

12-10-2012, 12:50 PM	#1
CamaroRBT Who's Laughing Now? Drives: 2011 Camaro 1SS RS LS3 Summit White Join Date: May 2011 Location: Maryland Posts: 322 View My Garage	The Official 1LE 3.91 gear swap thread Ok guys this thread is for people who have done the swap and those who haven't that have questions. Since the price of these gears are so low I believe there is gonna be a large amount of us doing this. I am ordering mine tomorrow and plan on doing the swap around Christmas time. If you have done the swap please give us all tips, tricks and tools that are necessary to complete the job. This thread is aimed to help us not spend the extra $500 to get these installed. To be able to do the swap ourselves. Pics are always welcomed and appreciated. If you are considering the swap then this is the thread where you ask questions about cost, time etc. Ready............. Set............. Go! ;-) Last edited by CamaroRBT; 12-10-2012 at 01:16 PM.

12-10-2012, 02:08 PM	#4
CamaroRBT Who's Laughing Now? Drives: 2011 Camaro 1SS RS LS3 Summit White Join Date: May 2011 Location: Maryland Posts: 322 View My Garage	Dont get me wrong, if you are doing gears i would assume you would have some kind of intelligence when it comes to turning wrenches. Now this thread isnt for the 16 year old who doesnt know the difference between a ratchet and a wrench. This thread is for 16-80 year olds who are confident and skilled enough to be able to take on such a task as this. Now lets get past the "cant do it" and get to the "this is how to do it". This forum is full of intelligent individuals who are more then capable of pulling this off. Last edited by CamaroRBT; 12-10-2012 at 03:32 PM.

12-10-2012, 02:25 PM	#5
blazzin1 Drives: 2010 2SS/RS R6P Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: St. Cloud, FL Posts: 4,845 View My Garage	I'm sorry, but I completely agree with 429 on this. Just because a couple of driveway wrench monkeys (no offense, I'm one myself) on these forums think this is a simple swap-over job, doesn't mean it's a good idea to have a bunch of untrained novice mechanics tearing into their rear ends, and then wondering why their gears only lasted 500 miles before they disintegrated!!! This job, when done PROPERLY, takes special tools, training, and experience (as 429 previously mentioned). Why would you want to gamble on the possibility of destroying your rear end? Get it done right...by a professional....or don't do it at all. Sorry, just my opinion.... EDIT: I will say that if a person is mechanically-inclined and has the appropriate tools and facilities, there should be no problem removing and/or disconnecting the exhaust, axles, driveshaft, and rear end pumpkin yourself. That will save you a ton in labor costs right there. But take the pumpkin to a shop that specializes in rear ends (no, not your local strip bar) and have them set-up the gears for you. If done properly, there's really much more to it than just swapping stuff over. Last edited by blazzin1; 12-10-2012 at 02:43 PM.

12-10-2012, 03:48 PM	#11
stikSS 9691 & 97586 Drives: 2010 SS, 1999 SS, 1993 Z28 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sanford, NC Posts: 2,814 View My Garage	Ok.... I just posted on another 3.91 thread in this same section yesterday. I just done my swap this past weekend, and don't believe everything you read or see. While I do agree that if this is your first rodeo with gears... you may want to have a differential mechanic on retainer, but it's not near as bad as what I'm sure some of you and myself have read about doing gears. Now I will do my best to give you as much detail as I can into my swap, and I do apologize for not having pictures, but when I'm working on my car... the camera is the farthest thing from my mind. Tools - if you are lucky enough to have a lift.. that will make this very easy, if not, jack and stands will work just as good. You will need a 18mm socket and wrench, 10mm wrench, and a 15mm socket and wrench. Most of the bolts in the rear of the car are 18mm, but your exhaust if you remove it will be 15mm and the 10mm wrench will be used to remove the little bolt holding your brake line and the sensor that hooks into the hub, and a 32mm socket to remove the axle nut. After removing the wheels, remove the axle nut... you may need a cheater bar to break it loose, then use the 10mm and disconnect the brake line attached to the upper control arm, and the sensor behind the rotor that hooks into the hub. Next, you will remove the bolts from the upper control arm, the upper trailing arm and the lower trailing arm, this will allow you lean the hub outward from the car so that you can remove the axles. Take a hammer and a rachet end or rod and hit the end of the axle to push it out of the hub. Once you have the axle loose from the hub, If you have someone helping, one needs to get under the car and the second person needs to work the axle out of the hub and then start the removal from the carrier. All you need to do is give a few good tugs and it will come out, but make sure you don't damage the seals pulling the axles out. That is where the 2nd person is important... make sure they support the axle as it's being taken out of the carrier from underneath the car. No axle grease will come out, or if it does it will be very little. You will do this on both sides. Next, there are 3 bolts connecting the driveshaft. You will more than likely need to either set the parking break or make sure the car is in gear when removing the bolts. All 3 can be removed, the shaft will still be supported by the pinion. Now, you may have to drop the exhaust, that depends on what you have. I have Corsa, and I removed the back half of mine. This will give all the room you need to get the carrier out. There are 3 bolts holding the carrier, and there is a small vent tube connected to the carrier, just pull it off. Get a jack and support the carrier before you start taking bolts out, so you can start lowering it down. Once you start the lowering process, one person needs to slowly work the driveshaft out. I will basically seperate itself as you lower the carrier. That pretty much sums up the removal, and the install is the same methods as this just in reverse. Onto the gear swap....... This is where i think it will surprise alot of people. I didn't actually do my swap, but I was taught and watched it being done by my mechanic. Pretty much, Chevrolet has the carrier machined so well that its a take out and put in method. The gears will come with new ring bolts, and crush sleeve. You will need to get the pinion out of the housing and press off the pinion bearing and removed the crush sleeve, and then same process to install the new sleeve and you should be able to reuse the same bearing as long as you don't damage it taking it off the original pinion, and install it back into the housing. Now, replace the ring gear and reattach with new bolts, use the existing bearings on both sides of the ring gear if they look good, basically you're ready to re-install that back into the housing. The fit is very tight, and what we done was stood the carrier up on the end and held everthing together and slowly worked back into place. It takes a little force to work back in, but once its in, bolt the caps back on and pretty much its done. No shims or backlash adjustment was needed. The gear was lined up perfect. We assumed that since this is OEM parts, that it was machined to fit prefect without any adjustment. My mechanic was very impressed with precision that is used since there was no need for shims or bacK lash. We used grease to double check the position and it was lined up dead perfect in the center of the ring gear. From there.... it was put the gasket on, and replace the carrier cover.... and then back in the car same way it came out. By far.... one of the easiest mods I've ever done on my car and very worth the money. I paid 248 for the gears and my mechanic charged 150 for labor. The labor charges i've seen for these swaps is crazy... unless you're doing an aftermarket gear, then those will require shims and back lash setting. __________________ http://www.camarosouth.com camarosouth@hotmail.com

12-10-2012, 01:07 PM	#2
CamaroRBT Who's Laughing Now? Drives: 2011 Camaro 1SS RS LS3 Summit White Join Date: May 2011 Location: Maryland Posts: 322 View My Garage

12-10-2012, 01:58 PM	#3
429 Account Suspended Drives: 2010 camaro ss Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Richmond Hill, GA Posts: 726	Unless you have a case spreader, depth and backlash micrometer, and working knowledge of gear patterning, you have no business doing this install by yourself. Pull the pumpkin and take it to a specialty shop (differential shop, 4x4 shop, speed shop)

12-10-2012, 03:01 PM	#8
Caswell239 Drives: 2011 2ss/rs Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 1,431	Wtf is a backlash micrometer? Sent from my iPhone using Tapat

12-10-2012, 03:14 PM	#10
Caswell239 Drives: 2011 2ss/rs Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 1,431	I was like uhh does he mean a dial indicator lol. Sent from my iPhone using Tapat

12-10-2012, 03:49 PM	#12
ssmike BL1ZZRD Drives: '16 Camaro 2SS, '20 Equinox Redline Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 7,840	OK now that we have all the pre-requisite stuff discussed I'm doing 3.91's but I'll leave the actual gear swap to a pro! I will, however, attempt to do the differential removal from the car to save money! I have done all of my own suspension mods so I know my way around the chassis and think I can do the removal OK on jackstands! My question is this, I looked at the Pfadt instructions for doing their bushings and it says to remove pretty much everything from the wheel hub on the driver's side and pull the axle from the dif. Then remove the driveshaft and dif mounts. Do I need to repeat the same thing on the passenger side or just pull the diff off of the passenger side axle? Also, Does the axle nut need removing from the driver side wheel hub or stay attached? It wasn't clear to me, or I missed that info. Thanks! OP, glad you started this thread! Edit: stikSS just answered my question. He posted just before I hit the post button!

12-10-2012, 04:19 PM	#14
CamaroRBT Who's Laughing Now? Drives: 2011 Camaro 1SS RS LS3 Summit White Join Date: May 2011 Location: Maryland Posts: 322 View My Garage	Now thats what im talking about stikss!!!