[Camaro_Corvette]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The concern should not be the current Hellcat or past GT500. They should be concerned with the future cars. The 5th gen ZL1 and 5.8 GT500 is a perfect example. GM aimed for the 550 hp GT500 so Ford responded with the 662 hp GT500. Ford knows the 6th gen Z will have the LT4 at 640 hp.

I'm interested in the next Challenger. I'm hopin it's really good! Not too excited about the current. Next GT500 moostang should be pretty good.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The concern should not be the current Hellcat or past GT500. They should be concerned with the future cars. The 5th gen ZL1 and 5.8 GT500 is a perfect example. GM aimed for the 550 hp GT500 so Ford responded with the 662 hp GT500. Ford knows the 6th gen Z will have the LT4 at 640 hp.

Exactly.

[90503]

All the Hellcat has going for it is a hp number that is currently the highest. If somehow that automatically makes it the "best" car to some don't expect Chevy to chase that just because it's all another auto-maker can come up with.

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

That's not what I meant. What I meant is they don't update the engine over their lifespan. The LS3 has made 426 hp since it was introduced. The LS7 has made 505 hp since it was introduced. The LS9 made 638 hp. The last V8 engine GM upgraded while it was in the same car was the LS6 in the C5 Z06.



Yeah, that's what I was trying to say.

I hear ya but the LF3 is not a completely different engine than the LF4. Only a few things changed and they did improve horsepower. I like GM's approach. Why do small 10 HP increases when you can save it for a substantial change and call it a new motor? It's childish to waste development costs chasing a competitor with a goal of beating them by only a few horsepower. They didn't feel like the ZL1 needed an increase and the car is still pretty successful.

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by Camaro_Corvette

I'm interested in the next Challenger. I'm hopin it's really good! Not too excited about the current. Next GT500 moostang should be pretty good.

I do feel like the Challenger refresh made a world of difference in the way the car looks. They always catch my eye. The handling and weight are really the only issues though pretty important for prospective buyers.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

I hear ya but the LF3 is not a completely different engine than the LF4. Only a few things changed and they did improve horsepower. I like GM's approach. Why do small 10 HP increases when you can save it for a substantial change and call it a new motor? It's childish to waste development costs chasing a competitor with a goal of beating them by only a few horsepower. They didn't feel like the ZL1 needed an increase and the car is still pretty successful.

Because they don't change engines. The LF4 is for the ATS-V. It's not like they are swapping all LF3 powered cars to LF4.

Ford and Dodge sure as hell don't think its childish and if your competitors keep pushing forward, you sure as hell should too. The Camaro benefited from a solid handling advantage and the fact that it was gone for 8 years. Both those are gone for the 6th gen.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

I do feel like the Challenger refresh made a world of difference in the way the car looks. They always catch my eye. The handling and weight are really the only issues though pretty important for prospective buyers.

Agreed. Me too. Big improvement all around. The handling is much improved as well.

The weight is the last big detraction.

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Because they don't change engines. The LF4 is for the ATS-V. It's not like they are swapping all LF3 powered cars to LF4.

Ford and Dodge sure as hell don't think its childish and if your competitors keep pushing forward, you sure as hell should too. The Camaro benefited from a solid handling advantage and the fact that it was gone for 8 years. Both those are gone for the 6th gen.

I think the Camaro hiatus put it at a disadvantage. Now the Camaro crowd has grown much larger and that should set the sixth gen up for a start even more successful than the fifth.

[v8]

Originally Posted by v8

Agreed, but I like to keep my cars stock as the resale value is generally better and you have no warranty issues. Also if you sell it during the warranty period (i.e. under 3 years) its a tough sell if you tell your buyer you car has no warranty.

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

CAI, pulley and exhaust can easily be swapped on and off. No one will notice the injectors. The stock ZL1 injectors are insufficient for the stock LSA as-is.

But what about the tune once you tune you lose your warranty and with CAI, pulley and exhaust you have to tune. If you sell your car privately you would not want to lie about the tune. Your buyer may come looking for you when need needs warranty work

[v8]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The concern should not be the current Hellcat or past GT500. They should be concerned with the future cars. The 5th gen ZL1 and 5.8 GT500 is a perfect example. GM aimed for the 550 hp GT500 so Ford responded with the 662 hp GT500. Ford knows the 6th gen Z will have the LT4 at 640 hp.

+1

[Clearly_Canadian]

I am really starting to think Ford may be doing some serious homework this year. I am not worried about hellkitty anymore. black and white, it is just too fat. However, now that ford is dabiling into weight savings (I know, yet to be seen), MRC and a decent power plant, they could be actually becoming a threat... (GASP)

I really wouldn't be surprised if GM surpasses the hellkitty with 725 horse in a new, low volume seller like the z/28 super camaro.

I also don't see the ZL1 breaking 675 horse. It has a solid rep for a quality track and drag car as it is and does not need to prove itself anymore.

Which begs my next question.... Besides Z/28, ZL1, IROC, SS, RS, Berletta (whatever, that car SUCKED), LT, ECT. Is there any other special edition camaros that we have not seen make a come back that could be a contender for the new "super camaro"?

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by v8

But what about the tune once you tune you lose your warranty and with CAI, pulley and exhaust you have to tune. If you sell your car privately you would not want to lie about the tune. Your buyer may come looking for you when need needs warranty work

Sure you can tune it if you want. Almost no one will tune with a CAI and a catback. Quite a few do not tune with a simple pulley. The biggest issue with the ZL1 are those damn injectors it seems.

Should you tune? Yea. But you don't have to.

[Travisp]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

It's a 1 trick pony as far as performance goes.

Originally Posted by sonnydurden

I'm so tired of this discussion... I would much rather have an all around car than a straight line rocket.

Originally Posted by Clearly_Canadian

I am not worried about hellkitty anymore. black and white, it is just too fat. (GASP)

Hellcat 1/4: 11.2
ZL1 1/4: 12.1

ZL1 Figure 8: 24.0
Hellcat Figure 8: 24.7

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...r_srt_hellcat/

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Travisp

Hellcat 1/4: 11.2
ZL1 1/4: 12.1

ZL1 Figure 8: 24.0
Hellcat Figure 8: 24.7

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...r_srt_hellcat/

00.4 is what separates a VW GTI from the Hellcat on the figure 8.

00.7 seconds is an eternity. The Hellcat isn't a whale on the track but it's not in the same league as the ZL1s handling.