Sub Frame Connectors.....anyone have them installed ?

[prostock1]

Would that just be overkill, with the stronger bushings already installed.

[The Hunter]

Would like to know as well. Are they even needed or put the money elsewhere in the car?

[JusticePete]

They are not needed. Your 5th Gen is built like a tank. What is your 1LE ding that prompted the question?

[franknbeans]

I have the Hotchkis Max brace connection. I have 580 rwhp and didn't want to chance twisting anything.

[JusticePete]

I am not aware of a single twisted sub-frame from anything other than an accident. There is no need for sub-frame connectors on a 5th Gen.

[Camaro Dude]

Originally Posted by franknbeans

....and didn't want to chance twisting anything.

That's circa 1987 Mustang talk loll.

[Shutudwn]

Originally Posted by Camaro Dude

That's circa 1987 Mustang talk loll.

Lol, this. The subframe in the newer Camaros is pretty stout. My buddy commented on that fact with just a glance under the car.

[franknbeans]

Well, better safe than sorry. I know it's a world difference but I did twist the sub frame of my 1986 IROC. It did have T-tops though.

[Chris1SS1LE]

Man there sure is a lot of ex-mustang owners here. Smoking the big B.S. pipe of the aftermarket. Heck yes a flexy flyer mustang from 1979 to 2004 required subframe connectors because its frame is the same as this



It was designed to go to the grocery store and back. Not to go drag racing or road racing.

Plus technology and testing at tracks like the 'ring showed OEM's that the cars need to be stiffer from stock.

Subframe connectors were the easy money for the ford aftermarket and they couldn't let it go when the 2005+ came out. So they made some for a car that didn't need it. Greed instead of fact, millions welded more weight onto there cars.

These cars were built so much more stiff then the previous, that even in production before welding the body you could take the car off the line and put it back without checking it before welding.

If a Z28 is good enough to dominate most the tracks and be accepted by the SCCA. Then any camaro is good to go.

Don't buy into the hype or drink too much of the Kool-aid

[Sickness91Z28]

I'm over 600 to the wheels...I went ahead and installed BMR's sfc's. Even if they really aren't really needed, they cant hurt...

[Kendall421]

I have Hotchkis Aluminum frame tie on mine. Why? Just cause i wanted it. :o).

[JusticePete]

Let's get real here.

JPSS 2010 Chevrolet Camaro Suspension Evaluation

GM's Global Rear Wheel Drive (GRWD) platform was designed by their wholly owned subsidiary Holden in Australia. The first production release of ZETA is found in the Holden built Commodore. It was followed by the Holden built Pontiac G8. Chevrolet worked diligently with Holden on the revisions made to ZETA to create ZETA II for the Camaro. The changes are subtle, but significant. ZETA II is a more robust platform that has been designed to handle the higher loads created by higher RWHP, larger wheels and tires, bigger stronger brakes and in general the demands of a true sports car. Some ZETA components are interchangeable, most are not. JPSS has had the benefit of working on ZETA in Australia and then working on the GS Camaro that will run in the Grand AM Challenge originally designed by GM and now built by Riley Tech. Chevrolet has refined the ZETA chassis to create the best Camaro ever built with the chassis designated ZETA II. We took delivery of our Camaro from Berger Chevrolet in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Berger was a leader in COPO Camaros Back in the Day and is still deeply involved in the Camaro Performance Community.



JPSS is fortunate to have worked with Nickey Chicago, Fessler Moss, Hennessey and Lingenfelter Performance Engineering early on in the refinement of our Camaro parts range while we waited on delivery of our own Camaro. Our first Camaro R & D project was a Victory Red Six. Nickey Chicago did track testing very early on at the Autobahn in Joliet, Illinois.



Justice Pete's Camaro is used as a rolling test bed and pushed to the extreme limits of operation by some of the best drivers and engineers in North America. Using a ProCharger to produce 530 RWHP available we have sufficient power to push our suspension components to the limit . Cadillac CTS-V 6 pot front brakes are an improvement to the already excellent Brembo SS package. Forgeline 19 x10.5 wheels with titanium hardware reduce unsprung weight, even with the much wider Bridgestone RE-11 305/30/19s all around. Add to this JPSS Suspension and we are doing things with our street driven Camaro that many would consider impossible. While we abuse this gorgeous vehicle to improve our bits and range we show it frequently. We are just like all the other Camaro owners. We love our Camaro and like to show it off.



Our impressions of the Camaro after several thousand miles of bone stock use are that the Camaro is well built, very well built. We have in our fleet a GTO and a G8. The GTO is a solid automobile, even with more than 40 thousand hard development miles. Every 4th Gen owner that has been in it was impressed by the level of quality, refinement and noticeable absence of rattle or squeaks. The G8 is more solid than the GTO with a vastly improved ZETA suspension and with almost 30 thousand miles of development abuse is still rattle and squeak free. We love our GTO and the G8 is one of the most dialed in vehicles we have ever driven -- fully built and ProCharged. The 2010 Camaro is another level up from the G8 in terms of structural integrity. It is one solid vehicle. Run over the biggest bump and the entire vehicle travels the bump as a single unit. We have yet to detect any racking or cowl shake with 10 thousand miles of combined track and street abuse.



Indianapolis 500 Pace Car complete with Justice Pete's Pace Car Package

The OEM Camaro cruises well and after hours of driving you feel fresh and ready for more. However, going back to our G8, the Camaro suffered by comparison. This is not a comparison to a stock G8, but to Justice Pete’s fully built G8. While the comparison is not fair, it is what we demand of our vehicles and what we are accustomed to -- precision in our daily driving experience with almost OEM comfort. The JPSS , LLC G8 rides well and handles as well – we struggle to find an appropriate description as it is so good -- yet our G8 is still street friendly and comfortable. JPSS does not build race car suspensions. We build suspensions for the enthusiast driver that would like their Camaro to handle like a race car AND ride like the OEM suspension. Anyone can build a rock hard suspension that handles well on the track. The trick is to come close to a track prepared vehicle in handling with an almost OEM ride quality. Delivering that driving experience is JPSS specialty.

GM’s ZETA chassis is so good stock and so GREAT built by Justice Pete, it blew by a BMW M5 at the New Jersey Motorsports Park. The professional drivers said there was no comparison because the JPSS G8 was so superior to the BMW M5. A stock Camaro doesn't feel that way. A Justice Pete Camaro can and ours does. To be clear stock is VERY GOOD.



These were not specially prepared track vehicles, they were daily drivers. Justice Pete’s G8 was driven with the family from Michigan to New Jersey and driven back again. They perform like race cars, but are as civil as OEM. Any company can make a rock hard track suspension. JPSS delivers track ready handling while retaining most of the comfort you expect in a luxury performance automobile. Look at what Paul Tracy can do with the www.JPSS.com Justice Pete’s 5th Gen Camaro.



The 5th Gen is unlike any previous Camaro. The 5th Gen Camaro is an impressive automobile that is at home on a suburban street or the Nürburgring in OE trim. In JPSS form, a 5th Gen Camaro runs faster lap times than a full race Cadillac CTS-V on the same track with the same driver, John Buttermore SCCA T1 Champion in a C6 Corvette. For those that do not fully appreciate the significance of this statement you should know that the Fastest Production Sedan to ever run the Nürburgring is a Cadillac CTS-V. A full race version, caged, lightened, Penske Racing Suspension and full slicks is faster yet. The JPSS street driven Camaro on street tires driven by the John Buttermore out performs the race version of the CTS-V.



John Buttermore at Gingrman in the www.JPSS.com Camaro

Make no mistake, a Camaro off the showroom floor needs no modifications to be a great automobile and it is. If you would like your Camaro to be more capable, then the pages that follow are written for you. The Camaro is quiet. It is almost library quiet. They paid attention to detail and maybe borrowed an engineer from the Buick area in controlling cabin noise. If there is any wind noise, I can't hear it. There are no squeaks or rattles. The cabin feels as secure and quiet as anything I have ever driven. This is probably related to the structural strength that was designed into the ZETA II chassis.

As for driving, keep in mind we are very spoiled guys with some great cars in the fleet. The G8 and GTO are both ProCharged. They both ride on full upgraded suspensions and then some. They both have custom wheel and tire packages. They both have brake upgrades. They are built cars that have been carefully dialed in. The slug in the garage has been the HHR SS with a Stage II GM Turbo and JPSS and it can pull up the inside rear wheel on a hard turn with GM issue wheels and tires. These cars have our benchmarks for performance set quite high. The OEM Camaro is a super car and one that thousands will be thrilled to own -- but out of the box in OEM trim does not measure up to the rest of our fleet. What follows are our opinions personally and professionally. They do not make us right. They do not make us wrong. These opinions make us JPSS.

Is your 5th Gen structurally sound? Take a close look at these crash test videos.





Watch the engine move while the front sub-frame remains almost stationary at 14 Seconds
The front sub-frame mounts with six bolts and two locating pins. There are no rubber bushes. The front sub-frame connects well forward and well behind the front ‘axle’ for strength and stability. As you could see in the frontal impact video the engine was moving backwards from the impact (at roughly 14 seconds), but the front sub-frame remained well located. When GM designed the Camaro they built it well, very well. It was engineered to have an exceptionally strong

monocoque. A solid monocoque translates into a higher perception of quality while enhancing performance and function. In the following series of pictures you can see how the 5th Gen Camaro has numerous 'chassis braces' built in at the factory using state-of the art design in the form of shape, construction and materials --

High-strength low-alloy (HSLA) steel is a type of alloy steel that provides better mechanical properties or greater resistance to corrosion than carbon steel. HSLA steels vary from other steels in that they aren't made to meet a specific chemical composition, but rather to specific mechanical properties. They have a carbon content between 0.05–0.25% to retain formability and weldability. Other alloying elements include up to 2.0% manganese and small quantities of copper, nickel, niobium, nitrogen, vanadium, chromium, molybdenum, titanium, calcium, rare earth elements, or zirconium.[1][2] Copper, titanium, vanadium, and niobium are added for strengthening purposes.[2] These elements are intended to alter the microstructure of carbon steels, which is usually a ferrite-pearlite aggregate, to produce a very fine dispersion of alloy carbides in an almost pure ferrite matrix. This eliminates the toughness-reducing effect of a pearlitic volume fraction, yet maintains and increases the material's strength by refining the grain size, which in the case of ferrite increases yield strength by 50% for every halving of the mean grain diameter. Precipitation strengthening plays a minor role, too. Their yield strengths can be anywhere between 250–590 megapascals (36,000–86,000 psi). Due to their higher strength and toughness HSLA steels usually require 25 to 30% more power to form, as compared to carbon steels

Martensitic Ultra High Strength Steel Maraging steels (a portmanteau of martensitic and aging) are iron alloys which are known for possessing superior strength and toughness without losing malleability, although they cannot hold a good cutting edge. 'Aging' refers to the extended heat-treatment process. These steels are a special class of low-carbon ultra-high-strength steels which derive their strength not from carbon, but from precipitation of inter-metallic compounds. The principal alloying element is 15 to 25% nickel.[1] Secondary alloying elements are added to produce intermetallic precipitates, which include cobalt, molybdenum, and titanium.

Photos originally posted 11.11.2008 by aston70










Do you need a strut tower bar? Many assume they do. The brace was and is necessary when the roof is cut off. That is why TEAM Camaro designed and install the brace installing the Vert. The brace installed on the ZL1 indirectly for NVH. The STB cleaned up some 'noise' on the sensors used to fine tune the MRC. The STB looks cool so it is part of the 1LE package.
It would deny the obvious to say the OE STB does nothing. It does add structure to an already robust monocoque. There is zero data available that documents any gain in handling or lap times. None.



Stress Tester

Simons has discovered slipping suspension-member attachments and steering linkages sending false signals to the driver. Once, a race car’s control arm collapsed when subjected to normal cornering loads. His K&C machine has helped teams determine why one race car responds quickly to setup adjustments even as its identically constructed stablemate is a cranky handful. Simons adds that he’s never seen an aftermarket strut-tower brace provide a measurable handling benefit.

If you think a brace is cool. It is cool to install them. If you think braces are going to improve the performance of your 5th Gen, think again. When you are considering the modifications you choose to make to your Camaro, we strongly suggest you take a holistic approach and discuss the entire range of modifications with your JPSS Suspension Specialist. They can guide you through the selection process to make certain that each modification compliments all the others to create the best possible custom Camaro for your personal use at the most reasonable cost. Do it right. Do it once.

[Anthony @ LG Motorsports]

The car is for sure much stiffer than prior generations of cars, but we, like others did a kit because the cradles in these cars were not tied into the main structure that well. The back is completely mounted in rubber which is nice for keeping road and drivetrain noise out of the interior of the car but it does little to keep everything in place during hard cornering or acceleration.

While we do make a full tie in brace I think our rear section has been the most popular because you can now fully tie in the rear cradle in the car and keep it from moving around (which adds to the wheel hop issues) and not have to go to a solid cradle mount (which we make those too).

For track cars, the solid cradle mounts are for sure the lighter way to go.





Lightweight square tube steel construction and it ties into the center and outer portions of the unibody as well as a number of spots on the cradle to keep it in location and not bouncing around.


If you don't care about vibration or noise and want to go solid mounted, you can get the same mounts we do for the race cars.

[DrkPhx]

^^^ I really like those connectors, but they're $$$.