[ron scubadiver]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

GM is having inventory issues across its entire lineup, not just Camaro. It's a major reason why my GM stock is down like 2% in the last week.

The entire market was off last week.

[Red Chief]

Originally Posted by JAZ

Not sure what you are seeing in the trend lines that is "healthy" or "amazing" for Camaro or Challenger. The Challenger trend line is leveling off after a steady climb and the Camaro is still trending down towards the Challenger line, while the Mustang is still bending upwards despite a new base model refresh around the corner.

Thanks that's good to know. Maybe it makes you feel better while that Camaro is smoking your Mustang on the street.

[camaro5]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Ehh, show me the profit margins for each. How do you know which is more profitable?

Better quality? Arguable to say the least.

Funny, out of all the rental pics...you show the one next to the Maserati. If you're going to put it down, you need to at least show it next to an econbox!

Ehh, put up something yourself besides trolling bs.

You can park a mustang next to a Ferrari - mustang still looks like what you drive.

At least you were honest on this -

Mustang Fanboy
Drives: Poop
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Uranus
Posts: 380

I gotta go troll a mustang site (if there is one)

[samurai]

Interesting how grown up man fight like the kids who argue if xbox or playstation is the better console

Who cares about the pure numbers, there are so many things behind those numbers, that we can't see. 7.000 sold camaros in march sounds pretty good to me. As long as we don't have to fear that they stop making a 7th gen, everything is all right.

Mustang really hit the right spot with the 6th Gen, the sales were absolutely incredible for the first to years. But now we have to see how good the facelift will sell, especially if they increase the price but still can't fix the bad body alignment.

Also remember that Transformers was the biggest and best marketing they did for the 5th Gen. Let's see if the next Transformers will have an impact on bumblebee sales again

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by camaro5

Ehh, put up something yourself besides trolling bs.

I did, I posted a JDpower paraphrase and link to support my claims.

Where did you get your facts on the Camaro having higher profits?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Nice try.

Those figures (the real ones that MEDISIN posted), jive with what we've been hearing for over a year. For the record, I am just as interested in reading it from the source direct, as you seem to be...but since I can't...I take it for what it's worth...





They even developed a Hertz special edition Mustang and hung it on the wall at 2016 NYIAS.

I would like to see it as well direct from the source, while it does jive with what we have heard aren't you a little bit curious why that information is not available anywhere else on the internet other than a website that requires a paid subscription?

[germanicus]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

I did, I posted a JDpower paraphrase and link to support my claims.

Where did you get your facts on the Camaro having higher profits?

Its sort of a ridiculous argument. Would GM prefer to be in Ford's position? Of course.

The profit margin may very well be significantly better on the Camaro, who knows? But the amount of stagnant inventory indicates a breakdown somewhere in GM. Either in their pricing, design choices, or comprehension of market desires.

Comparison:

15,000 odd YTD sales with 29,000+ cars sitting on lots. around 138 days of inventory. 2nd year of new generation (should be selling incredibly well)

Or

22,000 odd YTD sales with less than 19,000 cars sitting on lots. 60 days of inventory. 3rd year of new generation (should be selling well, but has a significant refresh months away).


I hope the Camaro sales improve. Jan/Feb were so poor, you have to look to pre-cancellation sales numbers to match.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by germanicus

I hope the Camaro sales improve. Jan/Feb were so poor, you have to look to pre-cancellation sales numbers to match.

Or you can just look at the multiple times during the 5th gen era the Mustang sold the same amount or fewer. Also Jan/Feb saw the lowest sales for the Mustang since the 6th gen introduction. It was a bad time for all 3 models period. It's pretty much the same pattern we have been seeing for awhile, Mustang has a comfortable lead but when you factor our fleet sales...it's not as drastic (though there has been some amazing months for Mustang). Now if in Jan/Feb the Camaro had tanked way below the Challenger....that would be a different story.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Forgive us, but none here are paying for karpower.

Show us the data.

ATP's, and a plethora of other data can be mined here:
https://www.nada.org/industryanalysis/
http://wardsauto.com/data-center
https://pinpowerdealer.com/pin/
http://www.karpower.com/Marketing/index.aspx

You'll find most quality data lies behind pay walls. It takes tremendous, resources to collect, organize and present data like this which is why these companies charge for it. If you choose not to pay for it, that's your business.

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

All I see is what I can assume to be a paraphrase. Did he make it up? I certainly can't tell, can you? Where does the data come from? Where did KBB get the data? All I have is a link to a paid website. How is it that this data doesn't exist anywhere else?

Can we get a screenshot of the data? Any information they publish should have sources cited on how their data was collected. What is it?

Do I really care if the number truly is 30%? Nahh, doesn't bother me. Without sources we can see however, those numbers are meaningless.

The sources are above. You can do all the searching, sorting, filtering, you like. Take the time to familiarize yourself with the methodology, it will address most of your concerns.

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Maybe I missed it. Can you re-post the link that doesn't require payment? I sure as hell can't find one.....or should I say, Mustang Fanboy sure as hell can't find one lol.

Let me guess - all information should be free!! Wouldn't that be nice. You want accurate information you have to pay someone to provide it.

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

I can't, there are no sources available. The pay source he cites seems to be the only one available in the interwebs.

There are sources available. You continue to complain about paying to access them.

Originally Posted by shaffe

I would like to see it as well direct from the source, while it does jive with what we have heard aren't you a little bit curious why that information is not available anywhere else on the internet other than a website that requires a paid subscription?

Got to pay to play shaffe. These services exist for a reason. Lots of interesting data from national even down to the individual dealership level.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

ATP's, and a plethora of other data can be mined here:
https://www.nada.org/industryanalysis/
http://wardsauto.com/data-center
https://pinpowerdealer.com/pin/
http://www.karpower.com/Marketing/index.aspx

You'll find most quality data lies behind pay walls. It takes tremendous, resources to collect, organize and present data like this which is why these companies charge for it. If you choose not to pay for it, that's your business.



The sources are above. You can do all the searching, sorting, filtering, you like. Take the time to familiarize yourself with the methodology, it will address most of your concerns.



Let me guess - all information should be free!! Wouldn't that be nice. You want accurate information you have to pay someone to provide it.



There are sources available. You continue to complain about paying to access them.



Got to pay to play shaffe. These services exist for a reason. Lots of interesting data from national even down to the individual dealership level.

So you post 4 more pay sites for your sources? WTF.

Post a snapshot of the information (assuming it's not a copyright violation) and how it was derived (both should exist). The data may not be free, but how you present it is important. Hell, just listing the method of how they collected the data (which again, should be available from a reputable agency) would provide some valid evidence. Did they poll all of the major rental agencies? Did they get the information from the manufacturer?

This is precisely how misinformation spreads across the forums. People start posting information with any backing, which get's linked to other thread/forums which then somehow becomes internet fact.

[Techn9cian805]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

So you post 4 more pay sites for your sources? WTF.

Post a snapshot of the information (assuming it's not a copyright violation) and how it was derived (both should exist). The data may not be free, but how you present it is important. Hell, just listing the method of how they collected the data (which again, should be available from a reputable agency) would provide some valid evidence. Did they poll all of the major rental agencies? Did they get the information from the manufacturer?

This is precisely how misinformation spreads across the forums. People start posting information with any backing, which get's linked to other thread/forums which then somehow becomes internet fact.

Don't be a cheap-ass. Just pay for it if you are that curious and want to debunk the data posted (or look like a fool when the data is proven right).

Roll the dice, bro.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by Techn9cian805

Don't be a cheap-ass. Just pay for it if you are that curious and want to debunk the data posted (or look like a fool when the data is proven right).

Roll the dice, bro.

I'm not doing it out of principle alone now. From here on, I'm posting my facts with a link to that website knowing no-one will be able to debunk my claims.

FYI, I'm not claiming his post is wrong, but without the data....how the hell are we to know?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Got to pay to play shaffe. These services exist for a reason. Lots of interesting data from national even down to the individual dealership level.

So screenshot it for me LOL. I am not doubting you, all you have to do is look at a rental lot and its obvious there are more Ford's there. I just want to see it first hand lol

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

So you post 4 more pay sites for your sources? WTF.

I'll say again: You'll find most quality data lies behind pay walls. This is how the industry operates. It's part of their business model. I'm sorry you don't like it.

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Post a snapshot of the information (assuming it's not a copyright violation) and how it was derived (both should exist).

Publicize licensed content? No, I won't steal for you. I probably shouldn't have even posted specific numbers in my earlier post, just the broader relationship.

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

The data may not be free, but how you present it is important. Hell, just listing the method of how they collected the data (which again, should be available from a reputable agency) would provide some valid evidence. Did they poll all of the major rental agencies? Did they get the information from the manufacturer?

There is an entire PDF you can download at KBB addressing methodologies. I'm not going to distribute their content. Log-in and see for yourself.

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

I'm not doing it out of principle alone now. From here on, I'm posting my facts with a link to that website knowing no-one will be able to debunk my claims.

FYI, I'm not claiming his post is wrong, but without the data....how the hell are we to know?

The same way you vet ANY information - go to the source. No one ever promised data would be free however.

Originally Posted by shaffe

So screenshot it for me LOL. I am not doubting you, all you have to do is look at a rental lot and its obvious there are more Ford's there. I just want to see it first hand lol

Next you'll want me to scan next months issue of Car&Driver and post it for your cheap ass.

Every rental lot is obviously different and varies even hour to hour so our anecdotal experience is irrelevant. Bulk data tracking fleet sales (governement, commercial and rental) are available from several vendors but as a far as I know it's not free to the public anymore than WSJ's content is. It's part of their business model and I respect it.