[Modshack]

Originally Posted by samsumon

For me the biggest issue is backing out.. That really small blind spot when you look behind you is a pain in butt. Thankfully we do have the sensors.. That spot is dangerous... I just now can't figure out if I like the mirrors going down when i reverse lol.

Put some of those small blindspot mirrors on the car mirror. Especially helpful for noting how close to curbs you are when parallel parking and getting a bigger picture when backing etc.

[Blazin383]

Originally Posted by samsumon

For me the biggest issue is backing out.. That really small blind spot when you look behind you is a pain in butt. Thankfully we do have the sensors.. That spot is dangerous... I just now can't figure out if I like the mirrors going down when i reverse lol.

You know you can turn off the automatic mirror turn down when in reverse feature! That's very handy when parallel parking so you can see the curb, but for general backing it's more of a hinderance than help! Turn it off if you don't like it. I turned mine on, but I parallel park so seldom that I think I'll turn it off again.

[bballr4567]

Originally Posted by Blazin383

You know you can turn off the automatic mirror turn down when in reverse feature! That's very handy when parallel parking so you can see the curb, but for general backing it's more of a hinderance than help! Turn it off if you don't like it. I turned mine on, but I parallel park so seldom that I think I'll turn it off again.

Yup, we have this on the Flex. Great feature!

Originally Posted by samsumon

For me the biggest issue is backing out.. That really small blind spot when you look behind you is a pain in butt. Thankfully we do have the sensors.. That spot is dangerous... I just now can't figure out if I like the mirrors going down when i reverse lol.

Dont back out of spots!!! Back into them! Much easier!

[Whis]

Originally Posted by 20171LE

I'm the 2016 SS owner that you just described.
But, you're the guy missing this basic FACT:

The designer FAILED with the 2016 Camaro.

When you talk face-to-face with the designer, he freely admits he was unable to deliver good visibility/utility.
That's just plain incompetence.
A GREAT CAR delivers good visibility, utility, comfort, and looks with NO EXCUSES.
When I politely, but firmly, stated this fact, he blamed his failure on the "camaro fans" who demanded a "camaro look".
That's just plain BS.

GM fans like me who have been buying V8 stickshifts from GM for the last 3 decades may, or may not, continue to buy.
But, GM needs to be INCREASING MARKET SHARE by delivering GREAT cars that are appealing to ALL potential customers, and not just worry about what the designer ASSUME the "camaro faithful" want.

A GREAT CAR delivers good visibility, utility, comfort, and looks with NO EXCUSES.

Build a GREAT car, and it will sell.
Offer a pushrod V8 combines with a performance transmission in a GREAT car, and the "camaro fans" will buy it.


The $xxx,xxx that I have spent on GM vehicle in just the last few years proves that I am a GM fan.
But, the blind fan boy defensiveness of many in the GM community does everyone a disservice, it's transparent, and it's just annoyingly pathetic.

GM needs to continue to improve without excuses, or my 2016 SS will be my last GM purchase after being a loyal new GM buyer for 3 decades. I'm hoping that GM fastracks a Alpha SS Sedan to be made available ASAP with a base MSRP comparable with a 1SS. If so, I will trade my 2016 Camaro SS for one ASAP.

It's a fact they were surveyed and most owners preferred to keep the look. That's what's called customer feedback, and basing your business and implementation requirements on that feedback.

[SpeedIsLife]

I think it's a bit much to say the Camaro design chief "failed".

I think GM may have listened to Camaro fans a bit too closely and didn't design a more broadly appealing car..but I would hardly say the Gen 6 Camaro design is a failure.

[bballr4567]

Originally Posted by Whis

It's a fact they were surveyed and most owners preferred to keep the look. That's what's called customer feedback, and basing your business and implementation requirements on that feedback.

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

I think it's a bit much to say the Camaro design chief "failed".

I think GM may have listened to Camaro fans a bit too closely and didn't design a more broadly appealing car..but I would hardly say the Gen 6 Camaro design is a failure.

This is the truth here.

GM followed the Camaro fans really closely and delivered a car that Camaro fans will love but you also have those that are NOT Camaro fans that wont give it a chance because of the visibility that came with the Camaro styling.

[Modshack]

Originally Posted by 20171LE

I'm the 2016 SS owner that you just described.
But, you're the guy missing this basic FACT:

The designer FAILED with the 2016 Camaro. Yada Yada

Bitter much? You laid out the cash, you bought the car, I can only assume you knew what you were getting into. Fess up...You made a mistake if those are your priorities. I see a Camry in your future...

[Whis]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

This is the truth here.

GM followed the Camaro fans really closely and delivered a car that Camaro fans will love but you also have those that are NOT Camaro fans that wont give it a chance because of the visibility that came with the Camaro styling.

That's their choice though as a business. They gathered requirements based on feedback and built the car. If normie/non car people sales were not important to them that's their prerogative.

They chose to cater to the enthusiast and while I actually do have a problem with the visibility (w/r/t front left and right, getting used to it probably though!!) I still do not fault them.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by 20171LE

This is EXACTLY the blind, defensive, close minded thinking that is killing GM and the GM community.
And, if you're going to personal shots at me, at least be accurate.
My next move is to trade my Corvette for a 911 Turbo.
This is coming from a loyal American that HATES the germans.

Why did you even buy the Camaro then?

[Modshack]

Originally Posted by 20171LE

This is EXACTLY the blind, defensive, close minded thinking that is killing GM and the GM community.
And, if you're going to personal shots at me, at least be accurate.
My next move is to trade my Corvette for a 911 Turbo.
This is coming from a loyal American that HATES the germans.

Ha ha! I've been a GM hater for 40 years, I've had 69 cars including 9 Porsche's, 3 vettes, and ZERO Camaros until now.....I buy cars I like that fit my wants, needs and desires at the time.. I'm happy with everything about the Camaro. Sorry you're not.

[hotlap]

Last night while driving my ZL1 I though to myself I don't understand the severity of the visibility comments. Its not as good as my daily driver GTO but I don't even notice it unless thinking about the complaints I read.

I'm not defending or discounting the experiences of others. I'm just surprised that its such a none factor for me while being such a bitter pill for others

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by 20171LE

I already made it clear.

I love the GM's pushrod V8.
I love GM's stick shift, especially the new rev matching feature.
I love GM's Alpha chassis.
I'm a loyal American.

But, instead of having an open, honest, and intelligent discussion about GM's successes and failures, the fan boys will attack me and tell me to go buy a Camry. A top GM executive who everyone knows by name said the same smart ass remark to my face.
THIS mentality is what's killing GM and the GM community.



To be clear, if Chevrolet fast tracks a 2018 SS Sedan built on Alpha with the 1SS base price, I will be extremely happy to own it as a daily driver.
I love many things about my 2016 Camaro SS, but the visibility and utility are design failures.

What you've made clear with your rants is that you think the car is a failure and visibility and space usage is absolutely terrible... I have no idea how in the right mind you came to the conclusion to buy the car then since you think it's such a failure. Just makes no sense.

[Boxmonkey]

I think one reason they go on and on about poor visibility and lack of rear seat space vs a full on sports car like the vette, z or the ilk is that some people expect to make fewer sacrifices for this vs the others. It seems to be viewed as a more practical alternative. Also, it is a review. Not letting viewers/readers about that would make for a bad review and they can't assume that the viewer/reader is consuming all of the reviews. Same reason they all let you know how great the motor is.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by 20171LE

I'm the 2016 SS owner that you just described.
But, you're the guy missing this basic FACT:

The designer FAILED with the 2016 Camaro.

.

Didn't quote your whole post but WOW. That's harsh. I'm no GM fan for sure but you sound like you're upset over a lot more than just visibility, which yeah isn't fantastic but it's definitely not a catastrophic failure. I never feel like I'm in any imminent danger from lack of visibility.