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Old 03-01-2018, 10:55 AM   #15
keon718nyc

 
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Originally Posted by torqueaddict View Post
IMO, the Challenger is more practical for a greater percentage of buyers. It's affordable, seats 4 comfortably, performs well enough in base trim, and has more storage room. The Camaro and Mustangs are more purpose-built and isn't as suitable as a family car. Of course pricing and incentives matter as well.

I'd love to see the breakdown of the Dodge models regarding sales.

I see a lot of 6th gen Camaros down here. More so than Challengers.
Was just down in Ft.Lauderdale area last week and agree on seeing a handful of 6th Gens, as so Mustangs and a lot of Challengers, The roads are flat and longggg, Heck if your not doing more then 80mph on the turnpike or I95 then you will get passed real quick. I am just saying where i live in the 5 boroughs of NYC i barely see any 6th Gens. Probably because of the shit roads and can't go over the posted 25mph speed limits on most streets... LOL If you want a road course to drive at low speeds with many obstacles like crater sized pot holes then NYC is the place for you!
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Old 03-01-2018, 11:07 AM   #16
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If history repeats itself..the 2019 Refreshed Camaro should pop some sales back up, as long as they correct some of the shortcomings in the Gen 1 Pre-fresh.

The Gen 5 was seeing sales slump, to the point where by 2013 the Mustang was starting to see sales victories (month by month, the Mustang still lost the year total sales). The 2014 refresh popped the Camaro back up and it saw it's lead maintained for the rest of the 2014 MY.
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Old 03-01-2018, 11:15 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by shaffe View Post
Mustang 5800

Challenger 6093

From out friends at the other site

That's bad that Challenger outsold both Mustang and Camaro
Isn't this the first full winter with the Challenger GT trim available? So it makes sense to me that the AWD Challenger boosts winter sales compared to the Mustang and Camaro.
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Old 03-01-2018, 11:24 AM   #18
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Brutal month. The downward trend continues....refresh is needed.

It doesn't need a refresh, it needs marketing. How many times have you seen an ad for one in print or on TV? Maybe GM will wake up.
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Old 03-01-2018, 11:43 AM   #19
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Some people just need to come to the realization that there are many factors in this and not just "the car needs a refresh". When both the Mustang and Camaro are down for the month (the Camaro down 21% and the Mustang down 30%) that there are other things happening here. On top of that the Mustang which generally has a 25-30% fleet rate and you can generally find it with good incentives on top of just having had a refresh which boosted performance for both the 2.3EB and GT models things look bad for the Mustang.

Yes things look bad for the Camaro which moved less then 4,000 units last month, however it cost more (hence should have lower sales) and hasn't yet had a refresh. On top of that you have had a well understood swing away from cars and toward CUVs.

In other words they can fix every problem anyone has with the 6th generation Camaro, but don't expect sales to rise in this market (compared to the same month last year).
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Old 03-01-2018, 11:44 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by torqueaddict View Post
IMO, the Challenger is more practical for a greater percentage of buyers. It's affordable, seats 4 comfortably, performs well enough in base trim, and has more storage room. The Camaro and Mustangs are more purpose-built and isn't as suitable as a family car. Of course pricing and incentives matter as well.

I'd love to see the breakdown of the Dodge models regarding sales.

I see a lot of 6th gen Camaros down here. More so than Challengers.
I agree with this.

It should also be noted that the Challenger hasn't changed much since it came back in 2008 with the biggest updates being in 2015 with the new interior and with the Hellcat/Demon (which aren't sold in large quantities). So Dodge isn't spending a lot of money to update it like Ford and GM have...meaning Dodge can sell it cheaper and at lower profit margins.
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Old 03-01-2018, 11:50 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by bpang1234 View Post
I agree with this.

It should also be noted that the Challenger hasn't changed much since it came back in 2008 with the biggest updates being in 2015 with the new interior and with the Hellcat/Demon (which aren't sold in large quantities). So Dodge isn't spending a lot of money to update it like Ford and GM have...meaning Dodge can sell it cheaper and at lower profit margins.
That isn't the Challengers secret to its success, they have many different cool trims for the Challenger which the Mustang and Camaro doesn't have nearly as many. You have something like 16 different trim levels for the Challenger and I even found one that I like (392 T/A) and I am not the biggest fan of the Challenger due to its massive size and weight.

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Old 03-01-2018, 12:08 PM   #22
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It doesn't need a refresh, it needs marketing. How many times have you seen an ad for one in print or on TV? Maybe GM will wake up.
this
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Old 03-01-2018, 12:09 PM   #23
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Especially since the Mustang just had a major refresh.

I hate to be a price guy but I suspect Challenger had better deals in Feb (Camaro deals sucked). Also I give it to Dodge, their commercials are all over the place for these cars and well done. Ford and Chevy don't market the Camaro/Mustang well at all.
Doesn't the Challenger also come in a all wheel drive? This would make it more appealing in winter. I know Dodge shows a commercial with it in the snow.
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Old 03-01-2018, 12:11 PM   #24
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The Camaro in its current form, appeals to a niche crowd: low to median income male performance enthusiasts, and I'm ok with that. It's hard for me to believe GM was aiming for mass appeal, because it just doesn't have the ingredients for that compared to even the Mustang. It's like GMs miata, albeit a little more practical. Although welcomed, women and families need not apply.

For the Camaro to appeal to the masses, it has to be completely redesigned. An incremental refresh is not enough. And unless they do it right on the first try, a redesign like that would probably alienate its core fans.

I'm all for incremental improvements. And as long as it's profitable enough to stay in production, I couldn't care less about mass appeal.
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Old 03-01-2018, 12:14 PM   #25
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True story.

And to me, I just think it's something embedded within people to LIKE Mustangs. Point.

Me and my buddy were golfing a few weeks back. He has a 17 Roush, I have a '18 Zl1. Looks are subjective, I get it. So, when we were done, we were headed back to our cars and there was a crowd of 4 teenagers/lower 20's looking at our cars. So, they wanted to check them out, so we opened the hoods and doors so they can check everything out. Now, keep in mind, he's complety stock. I have all this sexy Meth plumbing and E85 plumbing and intake and all the goodies. Headers, exhaust. He's stock.

Not that matters in anyways, but as a car guy I would of noticed those things.

So, after about 10-15 minutes of us just shooting the shit, I asked.........so, which one would ya'll choose?

Every single one of them said..............The Mustang. I was like.........these kids are fkn stoooooooooooooooooooooopid. But, I think it's just cus it's a Mustang. It's always been like that which is one reason I always have liked the Camaro. But anyhow, back to doing nothing I go.
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Old 03-01-2018, 12:27 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by bpang1234 View Post
I agree with this.

It should also be noted that the Challenger hasn't changed much since it came back in 2008 with the biggest updates being in 2015 with the new interior and with the Hellcat/Demon (which aren't sold in large quantities). So Dodge isn't spending a lot of money to update it like Ford and GM have...meaning Dodge can sell it cheaper and at lower profit margins.
Dodge does a great job advertising and keeping up the hype. Dodge also has a AWD challenger, everlasting hype on the hellcat, hellcat wide body, the demon, and now a possible 725 horse hellcat in 19 along with some 1/4 mile drag goodies borrowed from the Demon. There is constant hype for the everyday street people. If they are not hyping the Challenger, the charger is being hyped. If dodge created the charger and challenger on a lighter chassis and a little smaller dimensions, it would be a killer.
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Old 03-01-2018, 12:29 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by MackSteelPrivateEye View Post
It doesn't need a refresh, it needs marketing. How many times have you seen an ad for one in print or on TV? Maybe GM will wake up.
This same argument was made about the 2013 Camaro.

It needs a refresh..the Camaro is a performance success, but it needs a refresh to correct issues that reviews have pointed out (within reason, you're not going to be able to increase visibility without changing the entire body/platform).
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Old 03-01-2018, 12:59 PM   #28
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I do agree that the Mustang and Challenger both appeal to a wider demographic just based on design and ergonomics. But the fact is the Mustang even with a refresh is not hitting previous sales numbers. I really think it comes down to a declining market with higher prices. There are only so many people who can afford these vehicles that can live with the ergonomics.
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