BRZ vs. 1LT 1LE

brzfan · 03-18-2018, 11:57 PM

I'm currently looking for my next car and the new Alpha platform Camaros have really caught my eye, especially the 1LT 1LE. At just 1s behind the M2 at Streets of Willow, it looks like a hell of a performance bargain. Test drove a V6 automatic model and loved the interior design and driver's view. Really feels like you're driving a transformer.

I have a $30k budget and will track the car 10-20 times a year, with also some autocross and drifting. C6 Z51 Corvette and Camaro SS are just too fast for me, so I've ruled those out. Currently BRZ (my previous car that is totaled) and 1LT 1LE are my top picks.

Had some specific questions since there doesn't seem to much info out there about the 1LT 1LE...

Do you own the 1LT 1LE and track it regularly? Would love to hear your thoughts on how the car feels when driven hard, especially if you also drove the BRZ. When you're driving through a constant radius sweeper at the grip limit and slowly add gas, does the car understeer or oversteer? Can you easily throttle steer out of turns? How lively and willing to rotate does the rear end feel?

Can SS and ZL1 aftermarket parts, especially suspension and brakes, typically be installed on even the V6 Camaros?

What do you think of the tire selection for the stock wheels? Seems like there are no options for extreme performance tires. Have you switched to a square setup with smaller sized wheels (18-19" opens up a lot of options)?

What oil temperatures are you recording at the track? How long do your tires and brakes last, and what run group are you in?

Is it easy/inexpensive to add alignment adjustment? After I've driven the car for a bit, I want to get up to -3 camber front, -2.5 camber rear.

What are the common issues with tracking the 1LT 1LE? What are necessary modifications for durability and reliability?

apexit53 · 03-19-2018, 07:57 AM

So I have owned and autocrossed a BRZ, and also I tested a v6 1LE for the scca last summer.

The V6 lacks the grunt of my v8 but it has good turn, felt a little more nimble and puts its power down quite well. out of the corners you can really mash the throttle like the BRZ and it wont get too out of shape.

tire selection kinda sucks for the 20s and thats they most F street camaros if not all go down to a 19" wheel. More tire selection for the autocrossing track tire.

Alignments are pretty cheep and im not sure if the v6 has a track setting option like the v8 but you wont get that much camber out of the stock suspension. You might be lucky to get -2 out of the front. You might need camber plates for the front to get the setting you are looking for.

Ryephile · 03-19-2018, 08:09 AM

The suspension hard points are shared among all Alpha platform cars, so you can add FE4 (SS 1LE and ZL1) or FEA (ZL1 1LE) links as you see fit. Browse my suspension megathread in the suspension sub-forum to get a feel for what model gets what suspension parts.

All the 1LE's are a fantastic amount of performance per dollar. The V6 strikes a sweet spot for reasonable sticker price, good fuel economy, and lower insurance cost.

Quote:

...Is it easy/inexpensive to add alignment adjustment? After I've driven the car for a bit, I want to get up to -3 camber front, -2.5 camber rear.

What are the common issues with tracking the 1LT 1LE? What are necessary modifications for durability and reliability?

You won't need that much camber in back. The SS 1LE and ZL1 1LE guys are typically running -1.7 to -2.0° in the rear with good wear. The front seems to like -2.5 to -3.0° for reasonable track tire wear, which is easily attainable with Moreno camber plates.

As for "common issues", I don't think there's anything significant other than keeping the brakes cool. xxxx In any case, you're bolt-on away from going to SS or 1LE brakes if you feel the need. All the Camaro's use the same front knuckle.

brzfan · 03-19-2018, 05:19 PM

Didn't know the LT 1LE had the same brakes as the SS. That should be good enough paired with track pad and fluid. Hopefully will be picking up an LT 1LE this weekend. Thanks!

Buzzberd6 · 03-19-2018, 07:57 PM

In addition to a number of autocrosses, I tracked my 2LT 1LE at Daytona twice last year. I had intended on also running it at Roebling Rd and Sebring but schedules and family intervened. I will be going back to Daytona again this May.

Regarding the brakes there, I never had one single issue with fade or overheating there, even with the OE fluid the first time last May. But I do have almost 35 years of experience there and I know the track is not hard on brakes at all. Even when braking from 140+ down into turn one.

I will say that I was MOST impressed with the initial bite of the stock pads it came with, as good as any I've ever experienced there.

I ran the original tires both times on track last year and there was plenty of grip available from them, as long as it was dry. I replaced them at 10,000 miles with quite a bit of tread left because they were just plain dangerous if the roads were wet (this is also my daily driver). I now have a set of 19" (same width as stock) with RE71s but so far have only run a few autocrosses with them.

I can't recall the on track oil temps at the moment but I do recall that they never concerned me, even at Daytona in August. Particularly when the coolers work well enough to drop the temps to almost normal levels during one cool-off lap.

So, I've never driven one of the 'twins' but I have been racing Honda a CRX since '86. And the 1LE is every bit as much fun as any of those ever were. You won't be disappointed.

apexit53 · 03-19-2018, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brzfan

Didn't know the LT 1LE had the same brakes as the SS. That should be good enough paired with track pad and fluid. Hopefully will be picking up an LT 1LE this weekend. Thanks!

It has the same front brakes as the SS but still has the normal V6 rear brakes.

Roostie · 03-20-2018, 12:53 AM

18" wheels will fit over the brakes. I think a square set of 18" Hankook RS4's could be quite the ticket for reducing the track day tire budget and perhaps making the car easier to rotate, by equalizing front and rear contact patches. I haven't seen anybody report using an 18" square Hankook setup, but I think it has possibility, particularly for the LT 1LE.

Kairles · 03-20-2018, 02:07 AM

I run solo on the track days I've done. Only done 1 track day with the V6 1LE and it was pretty good. I did take peek at oil temps it was in the low 230s the couple times i checked. It basically has the SS suspension so other parts should fit. Also it has 4 piston brembos but the rotors are 12.6" and they work good. I have the Z26 pads just because they dont produce as much dust as the stock pads. Dont really feel a differance between the 2 on the street. will be running EBC yellows(loved them on my thirdgen) for my next outing. Tire had good grip once I got the air pressure in chack. I will be upgrading to a square 19" setup and maybe some other suspenion goodies. The thing that it really needs is a good seat, my car doesnt have the Recaros. I've basically had V8s all my life so I really miss the torque, but it does feel quick. Its not alot out there about it mods wise so you'll have to really do some research to find things.

brzfan · 03-20-2018, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kairles

The thing that it really needs is a good seat, my car doesnt have the Recaros.

How was it on the track with the base seats? My BRZ seats were fine everywhere except long sweepers like Thunderhill East Turn 2 (looks like you are near that track). Can't be much worse than Miata seats, I'd imagine.

I couldn't find any listings with Recaro seats unfortunately. It seems like dealers are ordering these more as an options package, rather than track package. Most have leather seats and technology options.

Ryephile · 03-20-2018, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kairles

I run solo on the track days I've done. Only done 1 track day with the V6 1LE and it was pretty good. I did take peek at oil temps it was in the low 230s the couple times i checked. It basically has the SS suspension so other parts should fit. Also it has 4 piston brembos but the rotors are 12.6" and they work good. I have the Z26 pads just because they dont produce as much dust as the stock pads. Dont really feel a differance between the 2 on the street. will be running EBC yellows(loved them on my thirdgen) for my next outing. Tire had good grip once I got the air pressure in chack. I will be upgrading to a square 19" setup and maybe some other suspenion goodies. The thing that it really needs is a good seat, my car doesnt have the Recaros. I've basically had V8s all my life so I really miss the torque, but it does feel quick. Its not alot out there about it mods wise so you'll have to really do some research to find things.

Oh really the V6 1LE has the 12.6" rotors? Thanks for letting us know.

brzfan · 03-20-2018, 03:18 PM

Buzzberd6, Kairles: Do you guys use an oil extractor pump to exchange ~1 quart of oil before and after each track day? Which one are you using? Do you notice any oil consumption on the track?

Buzzberd6 · 03-20-2018, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brzfan

Buzzberd6, Kairles: Do you guys use an oil extractor pump to exchange ~1 quart of oil before and after each track day? Which one are you using? Do you notice any oil consumption on the track?

Minimal oil consumption after two full track days. Less than 1/4 of a qt. if that.

I did purchase a pump to extract the oil, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Worked great when I did the rear axle oil change to pump the new oil in.

Found out after the fact that none of the hoses it came with will reach the oil pan through the dipstick tube. I never checked before I used it. Evidently there is a restriction of some kind in the tube that is just large enough for the dipstick level indicator to fit through. It might be 3/16" in diameter, if that.

I just drove the car home from the track (only 45 miles) jacked it up, drained about a quart or more and then refilled it to the proper level after lowering the car back to level. A bit of a pain I know but I haven't come up with a better solution yet.

brzfan · 03-20-2018, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzberd6

Found out after the fact that none of the hoses it came with will reach the oil pan through the dipstick tube. I never checked before I used it. Evidently there is a restriction of some kind in the tube that is just large enough for the dipstick level indicator to fit through. It might be 3/16" in diameter, if that.

That's what I was worried about. Unfortunately, I don't have a garage to change oil and shouldn't be doing it on the street. Honestly, I'm a bit lazy as well. If I find pump/hose combo that can extract oil from the engine, I'll let you know.

Rich J · 03-23-2018, 08:40 AM

Oil temps on track run in the upper 200s in the summer. I change the oil after track days rather than extracting the extra quart. My main issue with the V6 on track is that everyone you come up on in the turns thinks you have a V8 and then won’t lift when you need to pass on the straight! I’d strongly recommend the Recaros over the regular seats.

03-18-2018, 11:57 PM	#1
brzfan Drives: '18 Camero V6 1LE Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: San Diego Posts: 29	BRZ vs. 1LT 1LE I'm currently looking for my next car and the new Alpha platform Camaros have really caught my eye, especially the 1LT 1LE. At just 1s behind the M2 at Streets of Willow, it looks like a hell of a performance bargain. Test drove a V6 automatic model and loved the interior design and driver's view. Really feels like you're driving a transformer. I have a $30k budget and will track the car 10-20 times a year, with also some autocross and drifting. C6 Z51 Corvette and Camaro SS are just too fast for me, so I've ruled those out. Currently BRZ (my previous car that is totaled) and 1LT 1LE are my top picks. Had some specific questions since there doesn't seem to much info out there about the 1LT 1LE... Do you own the 1LT 1LE and track it regularly? Would love to hear your thoughts on how the car feels when driven hard, especially if you also drove the BRZ. When you're driving through a constant radius sweeper at the grip limit and slowly add gas, does the car understeer or oversteer? Can you easily throttle steer out of turns? How lively and willing to rotate does the rear end feel? Can SS and ZL1 aftermarket parts, especially suspension and brakes, typically be installed on even the V6 Camaros? What do you think of the tire selection for the stock wheels? Seems like there are no options for extreme performance tires. Have you switched to a square setup with smaller sized wheels (18-19" opens up a lot of options)? What oil temperatures are you recording at the track? How long do your tires and brakes last, and what run group are you in? Is it easy/inexpensive to add alignment adjustment? After I've driven the car for a bit, I want to get up to -3 camber front, -2.5 camber rear. What are the common issues with tracking the 1LT 1LE? What are necessary modifications for durability and reliability?

03-19-2018, 07:57 AM	#2
apexit53 Drives: 22 1SS 1LE Summit White Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Milwaukee WI Posts: 1,142	So I have owned and autocrossed a BRZ, and also I tested a v6 1LE for the scca last summer. The V6 lacks the grunt of my v8 but it has good turn, felt a little more nimble and puts its power down quite well. out of the corners you can really mash the throttle like the BRZ and it wont get too out of shape. tire selection kinda sucks for the 20s and thats they most F street camaros if not all go down to a 19" wheel. More tire selection for the autocrossing track tire. Alignments are pretty cheep and im not sure if the v6 has a track setting option like the v8 but you wont get that much camber out of the stock suspension. You might be lucky to get -2 out of the front. You might need camber plates for the front to get the setting you are looking for. __________________ #53 F Street 2022 Sponsor autocrossdigits.com Autocrossing Videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm-...3tiMt0KOg_2Aag Instagram: apexit_53 2022 Rapid Blue 1SS 1LE 2019 D Street national champion (2019 civic Type R)

03-19-2018, 07:57 PM	#5
Buzzberd6 Drives: 2LT/1LE, HPCRX, F250(tow vehicle) Join Date: May 2016 Location: Florida's Space Coast Posts: 238	In addition to a number of autocrosses, I tracked my 2LT 1LE at Daytona twice last year. I had intended on also running it at Roebling Rd and Sebring but schedules and family intervened. I will be going back to Daytona again this May. Regarding the brakes there, I never had one single issue with fade or overheating there, even with the OE fluid the first time last May. But I do have almost 35 years of experience there and I know the track is not hard on brakes at all. Even when braking from 140+ down into turn one. I will say that I was MOST impressed with the initial bite of the stock pads it came with, as good as any I've ever experienced there. I ran the original tires both times on track last year and there was plenty of grip available from them, as long as it was dry. I replaced them at 10,000 miles with quite a bit of tread left because they were just plain dangerous if the roads were wet (this is also my daily driver). I now have a set of 19" (same width as stock) with RE71s but so far have only run a few autocrosses with them. I can't recall the on track oil temps at the moment but I do recall that they never concerned me, even at Daytona in August. Particularly when the coolers work well enough to drop the temps to almost normal levels during one cool-off lap. So, I've never driven one of the 'twins' but I have been racing Honda a CRX since '86. And the 1LE is every bit as much fun as any of those ever were. You won't be disappointed. __________________ 2017 2LS 1LE 'I feel that life is measured in achievement, not in years alone' Bruce McLaren

03-19-2018, 05:19 PM	#4
brzfan Drives: '18 Camero V6 1LE Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: San Diego Posts: 29	Didn't know the LT 1LE had the same brakes as the SS. That should be good enough paired with track pad and fluid. Hopefully will be picking up an LT 1LE this weekend. Thanks!

03-20-2018, 12:53 AM	#7
Roostie all it takes is cash Drives: 2018 LS V6 1LE; E350 wagon; Model3 Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: San Diego Posts: 372	18" wheels will fit over the brakes. I think a square set of 18" Hankook RS4's could be quite the ticket for reducing the track day tire budget and perhaps making the car easier to rotate, by equalizing front and rear contact patches. I haven't seen anybody report using an 18" square Hankook setup, but I think it has possibility, particularly for the LT 1LE.

03-20-2018, 02:07 AM	#8
Kairles Drives: 2015 Camaro 1SS Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Antelope, CA Posts: 208	I run solo on the track days I've done. Only done 1 track day with the V6 1LE and it was pretty good. I did take peek at oil temps it was in the low 230s the couple times i checked. It basically has the SS suspension so other parts should fit. Also it has 4 piston brembos but the rotors are 12.6" and they work good. I have the Z26 pads just because they dont produce as much dust as the stock pads. Dont really feel a differance between the 2 on the street. will be running EBC yellows(loved them on my thirdgen) for my next outing. Tire had good grip once I got the air pressure in chack. I will be upgrading to a square 19" setup and maybe some other suspenion goodies. The thing that it really needs is a good seat, my car doesnt have the Recaros. I've basically had V8s all my life so I really miss the torque, but it does feel quick. Its not alot out there about it mods wise so you'll have to really do some research to find things.

03-20-2018, 03:18 PM	#11
brzfan Drives: '18 Camero V6 1LE Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: San Diego Posts: 29	Buzzberd6, Kairles: Do you guys use an oil extractor pump to exchange ~1 quart of oil before and after each track day? Which one are you using? Do you notice any oil consumption on the track?

03-23-2018, 08:40 AM	#14
Rich J Drives: 2018 ZL1 Manual Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: NoVA Posts: 111	Oil temps on track run in the upper 200s in the summer. I change the oil after track days rather than extracting the extra quart. My main issue with the V6 on track is that everyone you come up on in the turns thinks you have a V8 and then won’t lift when you need to pass on the straight! I’d strongly recommend the Recaros over the regular seats.

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