[L&M CAMARO 6]

Wont be long now for me to write a cheque for $60 plus USD for my new ride. Can't wait for the 2017's.

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Ok.

But don't confuse "not a GM loyalist" with "honest". Car-curious people can be wrong, too. Not all of the facts you're presenting are accurate. And of those that are: you're focusing on just the most extreme cases to color the whole picture. That's quite the opposite of "objective".

Every single comparable Camaro is substantially more expensive than the Mustang. Every single one. And it is even worse as you go lower-end. The lower end models have the greatest percentage cost increase. It is not an "extreme case." It is every single case without exception.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

But as I said earlier, I'm not going to keep arguing this.

And you shouldn't. There is no reason to argue. The Camaro is priced on a completely different level than the Mustang.

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by motorhead

You are wrong about that. Most vehicles are depreciable assets not investments. Investments are time or money spent with the intention of profitting. There are some collector cars that could be considered investments. You are way off in calling everthing you buy an investment. Infact, very few things a person buys are or we would all be stinking loaded.

Oy.

in·vest·ment
inˈves(t)mənt/
noun
noun: investment; plural noun: investments
1.
the action or process of investing money for profit or material result.

What you are doing is trying to redefine what an investment is to suit your argument. A vehicle is a material result of capital you spend.

Everything you do in life is investing. What you do with your time is an investment. What you do with your money is an investment.

Going out to purchase a carton of cigarettes is an investment in yourself. Going out to purchase a loaf of bread is an investment in yourself. Investments are not always "profitable." Investments are just as likely to generate negative returns.

The ironic thing is I bet you think the home you live in is an investment, but the car you drive isn't. The home you live in is generally an appreciating liability, a vehicle you drive is generally a depreciating liability. Both the home you live in and the car you drive create negative free cash flow. They are all liabilities. And they are all investments. Neither become an asset until you sell them, at which case they are reclassified on a balance sheet.

I will also venture that you use your vehicle to purchase groceries and commute to a job where you collect the majority of your income. That would make your vehicle a capital expenditure on your own personal balance sheet - it takes money to make money for all of us.

A vehicle is an investment in every sense of the word. It is a liability, and an investment.

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/investment?s=t

I don't see your 'anything you ever spend money on' up there. Profit is included in definition #1, and there are multiple references to investing and invested (1st definition of each also includes profit). An investment of time is also associated with a payoff. Then of course you have the uncommon usages of the word (biology, warfare, manufacturing, clothing). Those last few alone disqualify a car from being an investment in 'every possible definition'. But even without that, I don't see a depreciating car being an investment by any of the above definitions.

Virtually each of them can be applied. See response above. An investment is nothing more than a return for an outlay - you give me money, I give you a car. You just made an investment.

Get rid of all your vehicles. Call your boss and say you no longer have a means of transportation to get to work. See how long you keep your job when you tell him you're not coming into work anymore because you can't get there.

Then, tell your wife and kids you can't feed them because you don't have a means of getting food at the grocery store. Unless, of course, you're going to start walking. I guess you could do it. But maybe you'll want to invest in a vehicle to increase your potential for earning income and surviving. That's why we purchase vehicles - as an investment to increase our chances of success as we compete within the species, and generate more free time, which is a very valuable asset since most folks survive by selling their time for money.


Get rid of all your vehicles and see what happens to your standard of living. Maybe then you'll better understand why a vehicle is an investment in your well-being and earning potential.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

Every single comparable Camaro is substantially more expensive than the Mustang. Every single one. And it is even worse as you go lower-end. The lower end models have the greatest percentage cost increase. It is not an "extreme case." It is every single case without exception.


And you shouldn't. There is no reason to argue. The Camaro is priced on a completely different level than the Mustang.

A 2 ss is less then $500 more then a similar equipped GT. Chevy just choose to add all features in base price while Ford needs to add these features to the GT premium base price to be equal. So for same equipment there neck and neck for msrp.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by 13vertss/r's

A 2 ss is less then $500 more then a similar equipped GT. Chevy just choose to add all features in base price while Ford needs to add these features to the GT premium base price to be equal. So for same equipment there neck and neck for msrp.

[sboden]

Yes the mustang with the GT performance package (which motortrend used head to head with 2016 Camaro head to head so it was close) costs more than the 1SS MotorTrend used in the testing. The mustang is very similar when compared to a 2SS. I've never owned a muscle car but I've owned a lot of sports cars. This is the first muscle car and it is because Chevy went above and beyond with the new Camaro. It is lighter yet has more luxury. It surpassed what I was expecting and now I own one. The dealers in my area were only going down about $500 off MSRP but I showed the prices which they were going for in Chicago and got them to price it like the 2017's were already out. That is once they realized I had no problem going 9 hours away to make a deal.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-...rd-mustang-gt/

[WhyUMad1LE]

The new Camaro is in a class above Mustang.. and the price reflects that.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by vtirocz

A lot of the stuff you mentioned above comes on the 1SS:

The 1SS comes with a better driver information center (in my opinion). Aux gauges are basically built into that and are in your line of sight while driving rather than in the shifter area which does look cool, but is useless while driving.

1SS comes with Bose sound system, although not the uplevel one found on the 2SS. I'm not yet convinced that the 5th gen Boston Accoustics setup was better than the 1SS Bose setup, but I'm interested to hear other's opinions on this.

1SS comes with Sirius XM w/ 12 month subscription standard.

1SS comes with backup camera standard.

So that leaves two thing then that the 5th gen 2SS comes with that the 6th gen 1SS does not: Leather and HUD (let me know if I'm missing anything)

BUT, the 1SS now gets you a significant torque curve bump, heavy duty cooling package (aux radiators for engine coolant, engine oil cooler, trans oil cooler, diff oil cooler), Alpha chassis with less weight and better chassis dynamics. Let the road test #s speak for themselves as well as all of the reviewer's subjective feedback.

With that said, I really was hoping the 1SS would come in closer to $35k.

The GEN 5 2SS has the backup sensors as well, which you get on the 2016 2SS but not 1SS. Not a huge deal but no beeps when you get close to hitting something.

The price comparison gets a little harder for folks like me with a GEN 5 2SS 1LE. Since the 1LE package was such a good deal at ($3500 MSRP) on the GEN 5 it makes the price comparison between a GEN5 and GEN6 a bit more challenging. If you add the performance aspects of 1LE package to a GEN5 2SS and consider that it and still cost under $40k. That is what I am wrestling with now, I really don't want to spend more than $40k, which puts me in a 2016 1SS with basically NPP and MRC. The lack of HUD doesn't bother me or even the sunroof or heated seats I barely use but no leather is annoying on a $40k car. So, that is my situation is it worth it to go from a loaded 2SS 1LE to a 2016 1SS with NPP and MRC?


For 2013, the 1LE package is offered only on 1SS and 2SS coupe models, featuring a 6.2L LS3 V-8, which is rated at 426 horsepower (318 kW) and 420 lb-ft of torque (569 Nm). In addition, 1LE is only available with a six-speed manual transmission.

While the Camaro SS features a Tremec TR6060-M10 for all-around performance, the Camaro 1LE features an exclusive Tremec TR6060-MM6. Paired with a numerically higher 3.91 final-drive ratio, the close-ratio gearing of the transmission is tuned for road-racing performance. As with the ZL1, the 1LE transmission features a standard air-to-liquid cooling system for track use.

The 1LE also features exclusive, monotube rear dampers instead of the twin-tube dampers on SS models. The new hardware allowed engineers to tune the 1LE suspension to focus on optimal body-motion control while preserving much of the ride quality and wheel-motion control of the Camaro SS.

Other changes to optimize the 1LE for track-day use include:

• Larger, 27-mm solid front stabilizer bar, and 28-mm solid rear stabilizer bar for improved body control
• Higher-capacity rear-axle half shafts to cope with increased levels of traction
• Strut tower brace for improved steering feel and response
• ZL1-based 20 x 10-inch front and 20 x 11-inch aluminum wheels
• 285/35ZR20 Goodyear Eagle Supercar G:2 tires front and rear (identical to the front tires for ZL1)
• ZL1 wheel bearings, toe links and rear shock mounts for improved on-track performance
• ZL1 high-capacity fuel pump and additional fuel pickups for improved fuel delivery during high-cornering

Visually, the 1LE package for 2013 is distinguished by its matte-black hood, front splitter and rear spoiler – as well as the 10-spoke ZL1-based wheels, which are finished in black. The functional front splitter and rear spoiler contribute to the car’s on-track performance by helping to reduce aerodynamic lift at high speeds.


Inside, the 1LE package incorporates the ZL1’s flat-bottom steering wheel, trimmed in sueded-microfiber and designed for easier heel-and-toe driving on the racetrack. The quick-acting, short-throw shifter from the ZL1 is also trimmed in sueded microfiber.

[SVTsupremacy]

Been shopping both...2016 5.0 and SS (base/manual for me). I agree the camaro SS is a better car on paper, but you pay for it...base for base, the camaro is a legit $6,000+ (almost 20%) more than the mustang. It's about fun and bang for the buck for me...its all about V8 and stick shift. I'm really surprised that both cars/dealers seem to focus on selling these outrageously optioned cars, making it hard to find lesser optioned cars, especially the Camaros right now since they are newer. I'm not hating for you guys with money....smoke em if you gottem. but give me a break on these $50,000+ mustangs and camaros

I consider myself pretty unbiased, i'm a cheap thrills guy...I want the new SS but I'm not sure I want to spend that extra $6,000-7,000 for a SS. I already know I will probably end up trading for a newer version of either car in 4-6 years.

[formoutofchaos]

what are the issues of the 6th gen so far? if you have the car custom built is it hard to get under dealer MSRP? ps I was using true car to look prices

[suzook]

Originally Posted by SVTsupremacy

Been shopping both...2016 5.0 and SS (base/manual for me). I agree the camaro SS is a better car on paper, but you pay for it...base for base, the camaro is a legit $6,000+ (almost 20%) more than the mustang. It's about fun and bang for the buck for me...its all about V8 and stick shift. I'm really surprised that both cars/dealers seem to focus on selling these outrageously optioned cars, making it hard to find lesser optioned cars, especially the Camaros right now since they are newer. I'm not hating for you guys with money....smoke em if you gottem. but give me a break on these $50,000+ mustangs and camaros

I consider myself pretty unbiased, i'm a cheap thrills guy...I want the new SS but I'm not sure I want to spend that extra $6,000-7,000 for a SS. I already know I will probably end up trading for a newer version of either car in 4-6 years.

Unbiased??? Lol, not according to your user name.

[90503]

Originally Posted by SVTsupremacy

Been shopping both...2016 5.0 and SS (base/manual for me). I agree the camaro SS is a better car on paper, but you pay for it...base for base, the camaro is a legit $6,000+ (almost 20%) more than the mustang. It's about fun and bang for the buck for me...its all about V8 and stick shift. I'm really surprised that both cars/dealers seem to focus on selling these outrageously optioned cars, making it hard to find lesser optioned cars, especially the Camaros right now since they are newer. I'm not hating for you guys with money....smoke em if you gottem. but give me a break on these $50,000+ mustangs and camaros

I consider myself pretty unbiased, i'm a cheap thrills guy...I want the new SS but I'm not sure I want to spend that extra $6,000-7,000 for a SS. I already know I will probably end up trading for a newer version of either car in 4-6 years.

Why don't you just order the base SS you want for around 37K? Are you saying a Mustang (similarly equipped to a base 1SS) is around 6K less for about $31K? Sure, prices will seem too high if you never bother to find out what the base car you want actually costs.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by 90503

Why don't you just order the base SS you want for around 37K? Are you saying a Mustang (similarly equipped to a base 1SS) is around 6K less for about $31K?

Maybe he's saying he'd like a Camaro similarly equipped as the Mustang comes standard @ similar Mustang price.