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Old 04-03-2017, 09:08 PM   #15
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Camaros have evolved well beyond that car with all the pony logos on it and the long brick with short doors


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Old 04-03-2017, 11:04 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
Giant assumptions in this post. You have no idea what the profitability of the Camaro is or is not.

And having the better car does NOT automatically mean more profit.
Not assumptions, research-based information:

Quote:
Cutting Fleet Sales

Todd Christiansen of Camaro Marketing tells us that Chevy is also keeping the Camaro away from fleet sales.

The effort is part of GM’s well-publicized strategy to cut sales to daily rental car fleets.

The practice reduces overall sales volume but delivers various benefits like higher resale and residual values, lower incentives, and higher Average Transaction Prices (ATPs).

More importantly, it also boosts profit margins.

Traditionally, General Motors hasn’t championed such practices;

the strategic change is one of the key differences between the “New GM” and the bankrupt “old GM”.


Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/08/...#ixzz4dFXqdcsZ
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Old 04-03-2017, 11:08 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by camaro5 View Post
Not assumptions, research-based information:
No matter what good news there may be for Camaro, someone will always want to present it as a dark cloud in front of a silver lining....To some here, the only good news, is bad news ....(It fits their doom and gloom narrative better that way).....

P.S. Don't take it personally.
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Old 04-04-2017, 06:29 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan View Post
hopefully this good news will stop the usual 20 page thread in it's tracks.

shockingly all three are down YTD and gas is $2
Dunno where you are buying gas but 93 Octane is above 3$ here in Michigan
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Old 04-04-2017, 06:35 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by 90503 View Post
No matter what good news there may be for Camaro, someone will always want to present it as a dark cloud in front of a silver lining....To some here, the only good news, is bad news ....(It fits their doom and gloom narrative better that way).....

P.S. Don't take it personally.
Exactly!! Their glass is always half empty and if they see someone with a glass half full they try to knock it over. They cant help themselves.
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Old 04-04-2017, 07:10 AM   #20
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What is impressive is the numbers that Dodge (FCA) is still able to sell of that fat wagon-assed, oversized Challenger- which is being manufactured on that ancient platform.
Really amazing.
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Old 04-04-2017, 08:22 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by camaro5 View Post
Not assumptions, research-based information:
So what are those profit margins? Do you know?

Or are you relying on GM's Marketing department for that information....


Dealing in facts, GM has grossly over estimated the demand for the car.
Last Year, they added a third shift, and dealer stock shot up to almost record breaking levels. There are currently over 29,000 new Camaros sitting on lots (more than last month). This is a disaster for them. That stock costs money sitting around. For the dealers and for gm over the future.

Its not difficult. What are sales for the year to date? What is current stock on lots? So far, Camaro is the lowest selling of the Pony car trio, and has by far, the highest current stock on lots (there are almost double the amount of Camaros on lots than Challengers). Spin it however you want.
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Old 04-04-2017, 09:05 AM   #22
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Dunno where you are buying gas but 93 Octane is above 3$ here in Michigan
93 is $2.30 here and 87 is $1.95
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Old 04-04-2017, 09:10 AM   #23
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That is the number that I would have been expecting for the 6th since its launch. Hope it can sustain it now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeliveryMan View Post
What is impressive is the numbers that Dodge (FCA) is still able to sell of that fat wagon-assed, oversized Challenger- which is being manufactured on that ancient platform.
Really amazing.
That is really impressive to me, and I know drop tops aren't a huge part of the overall sales but they are doing it without one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrybird 12 View Post
93 is $2.30 here and 87 is $1.95
Damn thats cheap. 87 yesterday when I filled up was 2.36 and 93 was $3.06
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 04-04-2017, 09:56 AM   #24
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Dunno where you are buying gas but 93 Octane is above 3$ here in Michigan
look at my member name or location
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:32 AM   #25
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Good job Camaro! Challenger is the "healthiest" of the three, considering its age LOL. Look at the trends, amazing!
Not sure what you are seeing in the trend lines that is "healthy" or "amazing" for Camaro or Challenger. The Challenger trend line is leveling off after a steady climb and the Camaro is still trending down towards the Challenger line, while the Mustang is still bending upwards despite a new base model refresh around the corner.
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:45 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZ View Post
Not sure what you are seeing in the trend lines that is "healthy" or "amazing" for Camaro or Challenger. The Challenger trend line is leveling off after a steady climb and the Camaro is still trending down towards the Challenger line, while the Mustang is still bending upwards despite a new base model refresh around the corner.
I was saying the trend looks best for the Challenger CONSIDERING the old platform it is built on, suggesting more profits for Dodge. Ford and GM are on new platforms now... To me it is amazing that somehow the Challenger succeeds to still grow... I was not referring to Camaro trend line as amazing, only to the Challenger one.
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:19 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by camaro5 View Post
Not assumptions, research-based information:
Missing one key point................how much profit.

All of those things lead to higher ATP (eliminated with the 20% tag), which can be awesome. And yes, selling more SSs with more content always helps.

As we've discussed countless times, we don't know GM's total investment, piece cost or labor to determine the price of each Camaro. Further we don't know the Contribution Margin on the Camaro, meaning how much of GM's overhead does the Camaro get to help pay (pensions, healthcare, etc.), so we have no idea how many Camaros GM needs to sell to be profitable.

Whenever you run a business case, you have to know the total costs to develop the product and then you can figure out how many you need to sell at what price to make money.

If it costs $100,000,000 to develop the Camaro and GM sells one to Rick Hendrick for $100,001,000, I made $1,000. Now the question is would you invest $100,000,000 to make $1,000? No you wouldn't.

So unless you have that level of detail, the comments from GM you posted are only favorable things. They do not suggest how much GM makes on a Camaro or if they even make money on a Camaro.

Not trying to be a db on this, you just haven't shown the profitability or ROIC that GM is driving business decisions on.

Also keep in mind, Opel made outstanding products. They weren't making money. GM sold them at a loss to Peugot.
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:47 AM   #28
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Let me simplify this discussion. If you are a GM stakeholder or the owner of a Gen 6 Camaro, you want production managed so there will be very few 2017's leftover when 2018 MY begins. If you are a vulture driving a beater hoping for 20% off on a car with 5 miles on the odo and equipped the way you want, then you hope GM overproduces.
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